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  #21  
Old 25.04.2015, 23:47
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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We would love the company to pay our accomodation however I don't believe they will. We have to look at the figures as if we have to pay our accomodation costs.
If it's a normal expat contract they may provide a percentages 33% or 50% of the rental amount. It would make a big difference so check with them.

Either way, if it's a base 150k them that's more than enough. If it's a 150 package with a base much lower say 120 then you may not see so much disposable at the end of the day.
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  #22  
Old 26.04.2015, 09:35
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

How do these people get incomes of 150k when they are so stupid as to ask if its possible to live on an income like that? Please!

No its not possible, I suggest you refuse to accept the offer and remain where you are...
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  #23  
Old 26.04.2015, 10:09
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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How do these people get incomes of 150k when they are so stupid as to ask if its possible to live on an income like that? Please!

No its not possible, I suggest you refuse to accept the offer and remain where you are...
Maybe they just want to show off (just thinking)?

Last edited by Dechen01; 26.04.2015 at 10:50.
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  #24  
Old 26.04.2015, 10:13
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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How do these people get incomes of 150k when they are so stupid as to ask if its possible to live on an income like that? Please!

No its not possible, I suggest you refuse to accept the offer and remain where you are...
I do believe that I detect just a touch of jealousy there.
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Old 26.04.2015, 11:08
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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How do these people get incomes of 150k when they are so stupid as to ask if its possible to live on an income like that? Please!

No its not possible, I suggest you refuse to accept the offer and remain where you are...
Some of the replies, also don't seem to take into account the more than comfortable allowance.

I'm still waiting for the post, suggesting that they'll probably just about survive here, if they only shop in Aldi and Lidl ....... and only have the cleaning lady in three days a week, instead of five.
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  #26  
Old 26.04.2015, 11:27
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

Just an FYI for the OP is her husband is still negotiating his contract.

Be aware that the gold-plated expat packages of yore are in many companies a thing of the past - so setting realistic expectations is key.

The fully paid rent, household allowance, travel allowance, language courses for the spouse, etc... pretty much gone. Gone with the financial crisis, but also gone because of the free movement treaties - these days there are more people interested in moving to Switzerland so employers generally don't have to offer OTT perks to entice employees here.

Today, unless one is in a senior management position or possessed of unique hotly demanded skills the likelihood is that a relocation package will include moving costs and perhaps a set period for temporary housing.* Anything else is largely dependent on how badly they need you, on whether the move is driven by the employee or the employer, on your negotiating skills.

So when folks on EF talk about expat packages, do be aware that what was standard(ish) pre-crisis is rare today.

That said, all the best with the decision - hope you enjoy your time in Switzerland.




*US expats should still try to negotiate tax planning help. Or at least understand the costs.
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  #27  
Old 26.04.2015, 11:56
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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How do these people get incomes of 150k when they are so stupid as to ask if its possible to live on an income like that? Please!
Because it's a foreign currency?
Because they don't know just how expensive housing and everything else is?

Same as if I had to move to ... I don't know... Monaco.
I (sort-of) know that rents there are about as crazy as in the craziest places in Switzerland. But that's basically it.
You can look-up most things online (what does health-insurance cost, where do you shop (beyond tourist memorabilia and overpriced stuff for tourists), but having people tell you is a much different thing.

As she said, they don't want to spend everything (I think almost everybody has a co-worker who falls into that category) - they want to save-up money.
(Should be doable with 10k per month...).
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  #28  
Old 26.04.2015, 12:13
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=Switz erland&city1=Dublin&city2=Zug
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  #29  
Old 26.04.2015, 12:20
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=Switz erland&city1=Dublin&city2=Zug
Does this take into account current exchange-rates?
1l milk is now about 1.60 from Migros and Coop (unless you take M-Budget).
I think so, at least. I buy the non-homogenized milk from the reformhaus these days, which is 2.30 or 2.50...
I think, you can get a 1l of "milk" for .5€ or less in Germany....
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  #30  
Old 26.04.2015, 12:24
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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I do believe that I detect just a touch of jealousy there.
Not jealous, I retired at 32, I didn't need anymore money, which is why I moved to Switzerland? Like I said in my post, if the OP had done some proper research she would realise that 220k p.a is the minimum needed to get by in Switzerland (120k is so last year), thats why I suggested she should not bother, its just not worth getting out of bed for
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  #31  
Old 26.04.2015, 12:26
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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Not jealous, I retired at 32, I didn't need anymore money, which is why I moved to Switzerland? Like I said in my post, if the OP had done some proper research she would realise that 220k p.a is the minimum needed to get by in Switzerland (120k is so last year), thats why I suggested she should not bother, its just not worth getting out of bed for
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  #32  
Old 26.04.2015, 12:30
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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So when folks talk about expat packages, do be aware that what was standard(ish) pre-crisis is rare today.
I've always wondered if there legally even are such a thing in Swiss employment law as an expatriate contract. Aren't they just contracts under Swiss law and the employers just put in it whatever it takes to get the desired employees like in any normal contract in this country? The law is very loose and employers just have to respect a minimum set of rules, adding anything they want or need for any employee of any kind.
Is "expat contract" a malaproprism or am I missing something? Shouldn't we just talk about more or less generous offers? Genuine question.
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  #33  
Old 26.04.2015, 12:45
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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Does this take into account current exchange-rates?
1l milk is now about 1.60 from Migros and Coop (unless you take M-Budget).
I think so, at least. I buy the non-homogenized milk from the reformhaus these days, which is 2.30 or 2.50...
I think, you can get a 1l of "milk" for .5€ or less in Germany....
The milk I buy costs CHF 1.80 per liter. I guess the € 1.37 is the average price for a liter milk here.
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  #34  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:05
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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Not jealous, I retired at 32, I didn't need anymore money, which is why I moved to Switzerland? Like I said in my post, if the OP had done some proper research she would realise that 220k p.a is the minimum needed to get by in Switzerland (120k is so last year), thats why I suggested she should not bother, its just not worth getting out of bed for
Of course, Pinkpanter, do not take this kind of comment literally, as you are making a serious decision while mr Retired-at-32 is simply demonstrating brilliantly that money does not necessarily buy happiness.

150k is a good figure for a relatively comfortable life in switzerland.
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  #35  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:11
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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150k is a good figure for a relatively comfortable life in switzerland.
It's a high salary.
http://www.myscience.ch/living/salar...in_switzerland
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  #36  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:19
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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My husband is doing interviews for a job with a Swiss based US multinational.
The salary will be approx 150k Swiss Franc ( not confirmed yet). I am pregnant on our second child- have a two year old and hoping to move when baby is 6 weeks old!! ( if all goes well).
I will be a stay at home mam- we hope to rent out our house here before we go.
Looking at moving to Zug and staying either there or nearby town. We are hoping to rent a 3 bed apartment walking distance from amenities!! Ie shops cafes and supermarket etc.
What kind of lifestyle can we be afforded on this salary in Zug or surrounding areas.
We are not big spenders but at the weekends like to go for coffee and cake etc and bring the kids to activities.
We are hoping to try and save some cash also- we worked our take home pay to be approx 10 k per month but realise that Switzerland is an expensive country to live? Anyone offer suggestions to what kind of lifestyle we could potentially have there?
Surely such a clever chap earning 20% of the EF average can use Google and determine that Chf 150k/year is well above average salary in Switzerland, therefore you will have comfortable life.

And no i'm not jealous of this salary before anybody thinks it needs mentioning.
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  #37  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:31
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

Or an average salary if you are a foreigner, below average if you are a short term foreigner according to that which is amazing! I didn't realize foreigners earned so far above the standard local residents salary.
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  #38  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:32
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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I've always wondered if there legally even are such a thing in Swiss employment law as an expatriate contract. Aren't they just contracts under Swiss law and the employers just put in it whatever it takes to get the desired employees like in any normal contract in this country? The law is very loose and employers just have to respect a minimum set of rules, adding anything they want or need for any employee of any kind.
Is "expat contract" a malaproprism or am I missing something? Shouldn't we just talk about more or less generous offers? Genuine question.
An 'expat contract' in the sense the term is most often bandied about on EF is simply shorthand for what one negotiates with the employer in order to make it worth one's while to up sticks and move. Some companies have fairly rigid standards for what one is offered in each country, depending an array of factors including (but not limited to) job level, home country norms, host country housing situation, COLA, tax considerations, family education options, QoL of the host country, etc. Often these benefits are granted for a limited term, usually 5 years.

Other companies don't have standards, one negotiates it all.


However, there is/was a legal sort of expat status in Switzerland. Now, I don't know all the ins-and-outs, or even if this still exists. But back in the day (late 90s) OH came here with official expat status - we were allowed to keep company provided international health insurance in lieu of purchasing Swiss health insurance, he continued to pay into our home country social security system rather than into Swiss AHV, no Quellensteuer although we were on B permits. (Actually, that last turned out to be anything but a benefit!) He was paid out of the US office, in USD. This arrangement was limited to 5 years max - after that time one is supposed to leave or to switch to local staff status, paying Swiss AHV, taking out Swiss insurance, etc. My understanding (and I could well be wrong) was that this set up was available for staff brought over on inter-company transfers, and came about by agreement with the company and the (cantonal?) authorities. This arrangement was in place to facilitate a temporary assignment - hence the expiration after 'X' years.

---

But even where there are 'standard' packages a company might offer it still boils down to a negotiation. If they want you more than you want the job, you are in a stronger position. And vice versa.

But today, post crisis and post FMP, there is less need to offer perks to get the right staff. So today expat contracts, perks, negotiated packages -whatever you call them - have become the exception rather than the norm for many companies in Switzerland. Companies are not charities - they pay what they have to in order to get the right person. A (sensible) company pays just enough to beat the competition - and that changes with the changing economic realities.
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  #39  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:35
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

No, it's not, you're just shopping in the wrong places. I pay CHF1.15 for a litre of fresh (not UHT) milk in Aldi and iirc Lidl's price is the same - Denner is the same or only a few centimes more too.
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  #40  
Old 26.04.2015, 13:54
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Re: What lifestyle will we have

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However, there is/was a legal sort of expat status in Switzerland. (...) My understanding (and I could well be wrong) was that this set up was available for staff brought over on inter-company transfers, and came about by agreement with the company and the (cantonal?) authorities. This arrangement was in place to facilitate a temporary assignment - hence the expiration after 'X' years.
This is how I understood it too: expat status is the nice version, the actual employer being the non-Swiss branch and only the working place being Switzerland.
When a Swiss company hires somebody, it can't be expat by definition. I will follow the "relocation package" advice of yours and avoid the semantically challenged word "expat".
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