Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 29.04.2015, 18:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,467
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,230 Times in 824 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

I also wondered about the costs of the school lunches.
I'd have thought they'd be along these lines (website of the City of Zurich)
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/sd/de/i...agstische.html
or am I misunderstanding something?




Sorry, this post crossed with yours, Imdevore, just before mine.

Last edited by doropfiz; 29.04.2015 at 18:34. Reason: post crossed
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 29.04.2015, 18:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 10 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 8 Posts
lmdevore has earned some respectlmdevore has earned some respect
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
You must be really naive to blow this sort of money each month
Seriously? No need to be a dick.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 29.04.2015, 18:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,653
Groaned at 152 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,577 Times in 3,220 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
Admittedly, we do spend a big chunk on education. Luckily this will be finished next year and we can start saving a bit.
Yup, lunch in stadt Zurich in primary school is indeed 33chf/day (lunch!!!) if you don't qualify for help. Any the after school care (which includes lunch) is 77/day. It is unbelievable, but true. https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ssd/de/...te/kosten.html
I can see only 14 CHF for the food and 33 for the hort, using the calculator on the website.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 29.04.2015, 18:36
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Was Belgium now Neuchâtel
Posts: 8,220
Groaned at 60 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 10,241 Times in 4,924 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
You must be really naive to blow this sort of money each month
When you look at the breakdown of their spending I don't think you can say they were 'blowing' it really. They're not frittering the money away on frivolities now are they?

Last edited by Belgianmum; 29.04.2015 at 19:12.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 29.04.2015, 18:44
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 10 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 8 Posts
lmdevore has earned some respectlmdevore has earned some respect
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
You must be really naive to blow this sort of money each month
Quote:
View Post
I also wondered about the costs of the school lunches.
I'd have thought they'd be along these lines (website of the City of Zurich)
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/sd/de/i...agstische.html
or am I misunderstanding something?




Sorry, this post crossed with yours, Imdevore, just before mine.

The 33chf/day includes lunch and betreuung (or the child care), which is separate from the food cost. I think the food alone is is 19chf/day, but you have to pay the childcare also.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 29.04.2015, 18:52
MsWorWoo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich Nord
Posts: 1,485
Groaned at 47 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 2,216 Times in 867 Posts
MsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
I can see only 14 CHF for the food and 33 for the hort, using the calculator on the website.
What she says is actually about right. I pay nearly 800 a month for full care for one kid and that's with a 40% subvention. Three was something like a 17 or 19 frank difference for the lunch care depending on if you provided lunch or had theirs... I spend nowhere near that much on my lunch, and I can't understand what they spend the money on having spoken to her about lunch. But as she generally has seconds or thirds (they won't let her have more that three plates) I assume that there is plenty of it and waste is factored in the costs. I couldn't send her with packed lunch though.... she has enough problems without being different.
Breakfast club is quite cheap though. And she gets nutella on bread and chocolate milk (which the school say I am not meant to give her for breakfast because of the sugar)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MsWorWoo for this useful post:
  #87  
Old 29.04.2015, 18:56
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,064
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,178 Times in 5,756 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
33 CHF/day for a kid's lunch? Typo or can this be correct?

I pay 15 CHF for my kantine lunch at work and it's nothing special - I can't believe that it would be 33 chf/day for a kid?

It's about the same for Hort/ lunch where we are too.

When our kids were in Hort, we did think of pulling them out and telling them to go and dine in a restaurant of their choice over lunch because they'd much rather eat sushi and Indian curry than alpine macaroni and apfelmousse.

It was much cheaper a couple of years ago but someone helpful decided to double the price and band kids from taking their own lunch and eating it in a supervised location.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #88  
Old 29.04.2015, 19:05
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Luzern
Posts: 918
Groaned at 118 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 2,209 Times in 859 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Are you serious? Not allowed to take a brown bag lunch?* Do they have water fountains in the hallways or do they force kids to buy bottles of sparkling spring water?

This country never ceases to either impress, amaze, or disgust me.


*what about dietary restrictions - vegan, hindu, kosher, peanut allergies, etc.? does the school provide for this?
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 29.04.2015, 20:12
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Luzern
Posts: 918
Groaned at 118 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 2,209 Times in 859 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
When you look at the breakdown of their spending I don't think you can say they were 'blowing' it really. They're not frittering the money away on frivolities now are they?
They may not be frivolities, but 12000/year is quite a travel budget, innit? Another 12000 to support a relative, 24000 for master's education, 12000 a year for kid's university - and we're up to 60,000 CHF/year. That's more than many household incomes here in CH, when BOTH parents work.

So no, it's def. not scraping the coin dish. Being able to travel to the other side of the world twice a year, support other relatives - these are luxuries.

It's like saying "I'm so poor, I have to put 89 octane petrol in my Ferrari... "
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank pilatus1 for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 29.04.2015, 20:20
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,070
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,259 Times in 554 Posts
neddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputation
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Anyway it's a good enough salary to be able to feed all the EFers when we turn up for the house warming.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank neddy for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 29.04.2015, 20:38
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,064
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,178 Times in 5,756 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
A


*what about dietary restrictions - vegan, hindu, kosher, peanut allergies, etc.? does the school provide for this?
Yes. Especially if they choose À la carte rather than the set menu.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #92  
Old 29.04.2015, 20:56
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,467
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,230 Times in 824 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
They may not be frivolities, but 12000/year is quite a travel budget, innit? Another 12000 to support a relative, 24000 for master's education, 12000 a year for kid's university - and we're up to 60,000 CHF/year. That's more than many household incomes here in CH, when BOTH parents work.
pilatus1, I think you've put your finger on what I call The Gap.

While I don't begrudge anyone the joys of being able to study, the hope that their children will also enjoy that priviledge one day and the means with which to support that hope, plus the means to travel, I'm repeatedly amazed when items like this are seen as natural parts of what it takes to have a reasonable life. Others on that list are, in my book, going for a full cut-colour-styling each month, or to the nail studio, or "having to" take the kids out to some entertainment event each weekend, "must-do" skiing, getting in the caterers or the interior decorators, a bridal service, "needing" the latest electronic gadgets, expensive sports, frequent shopping sprees for designer clothing, etc. For me such items unequivocally count as luxuries (maybe very lovely to have and great to enjoy doing), while others see them as essentials, or at least as obvious goods/services to consume. (I'm not saying, Imdevore, that you personally see the world that way, of course I cannot know that, just that some people do.)

I remember standing at the tea table, years ago, in a church attended by many expat executives, but also by others not in that luxurious category. Three men were discussing their stock portfolios, a woman was explaining to another the difficult decision of whether or not to get the added underseat heating when ordering their new car, and a couple extoled on how wonderful their all-inclusive super-duper wellness week for the whole family had been, including the relations-of-no-funds whom they had flown in especially for the holiday... and I looked up, and met the eyes of a family father who, with his wife, was running a small business but whose firm had found no new contracts, and who really did not know how he would manage to pay the rent and put food on the table for his children.

That not just a soppy tale; it really happened just like that. And it happens over and over again in other ways and contexts.
I think that's part of what has happened in this thread.
The Gap.

Last edited by doropfiz; 29.04.2015 at 21:54.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 29.04.2015, 21:11
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,813
Groaned at 189 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 24,328 Times in 6,539 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
The Gap.
It's probably more DKNY than The Gap.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #94  
Old 29.04.2015, 21:18
FuriousRose's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: nearby the lake
Posts: 849
Groaned at 21 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 890 Times in 424 Posts
FuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

This thread seriously makes me thinking that we should have another poll about (new) EF poverty line
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank FuriousRose for this useful post:
  #95  
Old 29.04.2015, 21:34
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,755
Groaned at 484 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 4,009 Times in 1,994 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
Seriously? No need to be a dick.

Thankyou for your kind words, rather ironic don't you think ?

How many families of 4 with car do you really think earn over Chf100k/year and lets not double this to Chf 2000k/year and then complain you have no money !

You obviously have no idea how to live outside your little comfort zone nor any conception of monetary value as you Devore it all
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Today only for this post:
  #96  
Old 29.04.2015, 21:42
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Luzern
Posts: 918
Groaned at 118 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 2,209 Times in 859 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
pilatus1, I think you've put your finger on what I call The Gap.

While I don't begrudge anyone the joys of being able to study, the hope that their children will also enjoy that priviledge one day and the means with which to support that hope, plus the means to travel, I'm repeatedly amazed when items like this are seen as natural parts of what it takes to have a reasonable life. Others on that list are, in my book, going for a full cut-colour-styling each month, or to the nail studio, or "having to" take the kids out to some entertainment event each weekend, "must-do" skiing, getting in the caterers or the interior decorators, a bridal service, "needing" the latest electronic gadgets, expensive sports, frequent shopping sprees for designer clothing, etc. For me such items unequivocally count as luxuries (maybe very lovely to have and great to enjoy doing), while others see them as essentials, or at least as obvious goods/services to consume. (I'm not saying, Imdevore, that you personally see the world that way, of course I cannot know that, just that some people do.)

I remember standing at the tea table, years ago, in a church attended by many expat executives, but also by others not in that luxurious category. Three men were discussing their stock portfolios, a woman was explaining to another the difficult decision of whether or not to get the added underseat heating when ordering their new car, and a couple extoled on how wonderful their all-inclusive super-duper wellness week for the whole family, including the relations-of-no-funds whom they had flown in especially for the holiday... and I looked up, and met the eyes of a family father who, with his wife, was running a small business but whose firm had found no new contracts, and who really did not know how he would manage to pay the rent and put food on the table for his children.

That not just a soppy tale; it really happened just like that. And it happens over and over again in other ways and contexts.
I think that's part of what has happened in this thread.
The Gap.
Agreed...

And though I am genuinely happy for you, Imdevore, to have the means to spend money as you do - and it seems you and your family do in fact spend it wisely on worthy things, what amazes me is the attitude of 'we're just scraping by.'

I'd laugh if it were in the FWP thread, with the implied humor/sarcasm of how good we all have it in CH compared to the most of the planet....

but you're serious?!

to each his/her own, i guess...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank pilatus1 for this useful post:
  #97  
Old 29.04.2015, 22:20
TiMow's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 9,310
Groaned at 292 Times in 196 Posts
Thanked 12,189 Times in 5,300 Posts
TiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
They may not be frivolities, but 12000/year is quite a travel budget, innit? Another 12000 to support a relative, 24000 for master's education, 12000 a year for kid's university - and we're up to 60,000 CHF/year. That's more than many household incomes here in CH, when BOTH parents work.

So no, it's def. not scraping the coin dish. Being able to travel to the other side of the world twice a year, support other relatives - these are luxuries.

It's like saying "I'm so poor, I have to put 89 octane petrol in my Ferrari... "
"Bloody luxury - When I were t'young, I used to have t'get up 'alf an hour before I went t'bed, lick t'road clean, ............ and still ask t'mill owner for permission to come t'work ....... and you try telling the people who earn 200K - and they wont believe you".
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 29.04.2015, 22:33
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,467
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,230 Times in 824 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

TiMow, please post that video here! Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 29.04.2015, 22:38
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 1,452
Groaned at 22 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,764 Times in 869 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
TiMow, please post that video here! Thanks.
http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...533,bs.1,d.ZWU
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank me.anon for this useful post:
  #100  
Old 29.04.2015, 22:51
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 10 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 8 Posts
lmdevore has earned some respectlmdevore has earned some respect
Re: What lifestyle will we have

Quote:
View Post
Agreed...

And though I am genuinely happy for you, Imdevore, to have the means to spend money as you do - and it seems you and your family do in fact spend it wisely on worthy things, what amazes me is the attitude of 'we're just scraping by.'

I'd laugh if it were in the FWP thread, with the implied humor/sarcasm of how good we all have it in CH compared to the most of the planet....

but you're serious?!

to each his/her own, i guess...
Quote:
View Post
pilatus1, I think you've put your finger on what I call The Gap.

While I don't begrudge anyone the joys of being able to study, the hope that their children will also enjoy that priviledge one day and the means with which to support that hope, plus the means to travel, I'm repeatedly amazed when items like this are seen as natural parts of what it takes to have a reasonable life. Others on that list are, in my book, going for a full cut-colour-styling each month, or to the nail studio, or "having to" take the kids out to some entertainment event each weekend, "must-do" skiing, getting in the caterers or the interior decorators, a bridal service, "needing" the latest electronic gadgets, expensive sports, frequent shopping sprees for designer clothing, etc. For me such items unequivocally count as luxuries (maybe very lovely to have and great to enjoy doing), while others see them as essentials, or at least as obvious goods/services to consume. (I'm not saying, Imdevore, that you personally see the world that way, of course I cannot know that, just that some people do.)

I remember standing at the tea table, years ago, in a church attended by many expat executives, but also by others not in that luxurious category. Three men were discussing their stock portfolios, a woman was explaining to another the difficult decision of whether or not to get the added underseat heating when ordering their new car, and a couple extoled on how wonderful their all-inclusive super-duper wellness week for the whole family had been, including the relations-of-no-funds whom they had flown in especially for the holiday... and I looked up, and met the eyes of a family father who, with his wife, was running a small business but whose firm had found no new contracts, and who really did not know how he would manage to pay the rent and put food on the table for his children.

That not just a soppy tale; it really happened just like that. And it happens over and over again in other ways and contexts.
I think that's part of what has happened in this thread.
The Gap.
Please don't drop me into this little category of wealthy people who have no concept of reality. Since when is trying to provide a college education for yourself and your children, or working to support elderly relatives considered frivolous? (the travel, I won't fight you on that one, only to say it is very important to me to connect the children with their grandmother and cousins at least once a year, and worth extra scrimping) The reason we are able to do these things and save this money is because we lead a far from extravagant lifestyle and do watch the bottom line very closely. We have a small 3.5 room apt in a modest apartment in a rather low-rent neighborhood (as far as Zurich is concerned). We buy cheap or second-hand clothing, and only when needed. We rarely eat out of the house. The children go to local school. We own a used Nissan that we bought last year (after 12 years of using only public transport) so that we could see a bit more of Europe on our budget. Now, I am certainly not crying 'woe is me, we're so poor', but I am trying to give the OP an honest answer to her question about what life may be like on her 150k budget by providing real breakdown of our actual living expenses on a salary of 200k, and explaining that for our family (with our, in my opinion, fairly reasonable and sound expenses) money is indeed tight at the end of every single month.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank lmdevore for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Naturalisation: what type of permit should we have while applying? moonlight_m Permits/visas/government 15 02.12.2014 16:16
Spanish wife and non-EU ( Pakistan ) husband - what permits will we get alicia raja Permits/visas/government 13 02.12.2011 18:43
What will our descendents be amazed that we found OK? Caviarchips International affairs/politics 62 27.11.2011 23:13
By when will we have to pay in tax we underpaid for 2008 Tanya Finance/banking/taxation 6 04.04.2009 23:25
Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners] Richard Street Swiss politics/news 25 14.04.2007 19:42


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0