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Old 02.07.2015, 19:58
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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Can you ask them for a paper copy of an old bill? Or will your past credit account statement have the account details on it? You just need to get their account details and pay them.
I have tried asking them for a bill with the dues and fees etc...they simply said "Please talk with IJ and we can't do anything now".

That is why I am a little puzzled and just want advice if I don't pay anything to IJ and ignore them completely, what effect will a Betreibung have on me that's all.

Also just for 2 months of rental fee , I will have to pay an early cancellation fee of 500 chf which seems like too much.
I want to clear my conscience and hence I have made an effort to revisit swisscom via e-mail but i dont see any other way than to ignore and walk away
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Old 02.07.2015, 22:10
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

The two words:INTRUM JUSTITIA are to me like the full moon to a werewolf, I change from mild mannered Slammer to a raging creature that want to rip and tear asunder the vile worms that make their slimy twisted lives with INTRUM JUSTITIA, the plague on them, VD on them, scabies on them, and short arms so that they can't scratch.
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  #43  
Old 03.07.2015, 10:01
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

This is why I always try and pay the bills as soon as they arrive. I cannot afford to let one bill be forgotten, and I am sure if I avoided paying bills until the last possible day, as some people do, I would not save anything on bank interest, and more likely to get in a mess and think I have paid it, when I haven't.

When I dispute a bill, I copy it for reference, & send it back immediately: playing a waiting game is not going to help me in any way.
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  #44  
Old 03.07.2015, 10:11
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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I have tried asking them for a bill with the dues and fees etc...they simply said "Please talk with IJ and we can't do anything now".

That is why I am a little puzzled and just want advice if I don't pay anything to IJ and ignore them completely, what effect will a Betreibung have on me that's all.

Also just for 2 months of rental fee , I will have to pay an early cancellation fee of 500 chf which seems like too much.
I want to clear my conscience and hence I have made an effort to revisit swisscom via e-mail but i dont see any other way than to ignore and walk away
Then I think you are on your own now and have to make a decision based on your own conscience... sorry. It may be worth having a 30 min consultation with a Swiss legal expert who can help you understand the impact of this later down the line.
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  #45  
Old 03.07.2015, 10:53
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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Then I think you are on your own now and have to make a decision based on your own conscience... sorry. It may be worth having a 30 min consultation with a Swiss legal expert who can help you understand the impact of this later down the line.
Making a decision based on "your own conscience", and the impact of this "down the line" suggest speaking to the local Jedi priestess or earthly representative of a God you trust in.

Don't pay a Swiss lawyer expecting moral, conscientious guidance. Lol.
There ARE quite a few good lawyers on here though who might offer you such advice for free. Strange world.
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  #46  
Old 03.07.2015, 13:06
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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This is why I always try and pay the bills as soon as they arrive. I cannot afford to let one bill be forgotten, and I am sure if I avoided paying bills until the last possible day, as some people do, I would not save anything on bank interest, and more likely to get in a mess and think I have paid it, when I haven't.

When I dispute a bill, I copy it for reference, & send it back immediately: playing a waiting game is not going to help me in any way.
This is sound advice.
I worked in a department that issued monthly paper invoices (12 per year to each customer, plus reminders for late payments). Most of the enquiries were from people who didn't know where they were with their invoices, had lost one, had skipped one or paid one month twice and not the previous month which was a different amount, they were also bemused as to why their service was limited, blocked or why they had received a reminder bill and a Mahnung fee!


With E-banking it has become much easier to pay invoices quickly and no more trips to the post office, but the amount of people who still wait until the end of the month (some of the invoices by then of course expired) and go to the post office to queue up with a dozen or so payment slips or even the old yellow payment book is astounding, worse still is when they pay around Fr. 2'500 in cash!
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Old 03.07.2015, 14:33
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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Making a decision based on "your own conscience", and the impact of this "down the line" suggest speaking to the local Jedi priestess or earthly representative of a God you trust in.

Don't pay a Swiss lawyer expecting moral, conscientious guidance. Lol.
There ARE quite a few good lawyers on here though who might offer you such advice for free. Strange world.
I'm sure someone, somewhere out there knows what you're talking about.
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Old 03.07.2015, 14:45
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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This is sound advice.
I worked in a department that issued monthly paper invoices (12 per year to each customer, plus reminders for late payments). Most of the enquiries were from people who didn't know where they were with their invoices, had lost one, had skipped one or paid one month twice and not the previous month which was a different amount, they were also bemused as to why their service was limited, blocked or why they had received a reminder bill and a Mahnung fee!
Sometimes people deliberately pay the previous month TWICE. Sometimes they use the WRONG amount, pay more even. Fools. They mistakenly believe that the creditor WWZ or whatever, will take the duplicate and debit it from the outstanding balance. Who knows why they do this. Perhaps they are in divorce proceedings, their future EX has redirected their mail to a black hole and illegally evicted them, perhaps they don't want to let the kids see family physically fight, so they walk away not having a copy of the bill. Meanwhile the amount is credited to the Unknown Konto, manhugs issued, 20chf a pop for months, and extra charges wracked for disconnect/reconnect. Kids loose internet "father hasn't paid", loose contact with father. Maybe if lucky at the end of the year the duplicate charges comes back. Or maybe not.
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  #49  
Old 22.10.2015, 01:15
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

Hi all,

Hoping somebody can give me some advice. I left Basel in August 2014, I had a phone contract with 8 months or so left to run but for some reason I thought it was just 2 months. Anyway long story short I owe/d Sunrise 600chf or something in the region of, but ended up forgetting about it.

A couple of months back IJ sent a letter with a demand for around 900 chf. I read this thread and ignored the demand. Fast forward to now and they've sent around three letters more, the latest one this week claiming that legal action will proceed immediately unless I pay. Apparently extra fines will be added and they'll set up a court case.

My question is: Is this true or are they scaremongering? Will they really take me to court over ca. 900 chf? I live in Germany now and all the letters are going to my parents' place in the UK. They don't know where I live currently. But if they're going to take me to court I guess that's a drama I could really do without. Any advice appreciated...
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Old 22.10.2015, 01:39
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

Have your rents send them a registered letter saying you do not reside there..... . Pay it or don't . Up to you really.
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  #51  
Old 22.10.2015, 01:45
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

Alright, but if I don't pay it are they going to sue me in absentia and I'll end up being disallowed from entering Switzerland or something absurd like that? How far can it escalate?
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Old 22.10.2015, 01:48
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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Hi all,

Hoping somebody can give me some advice. I left Basel in August 2014, I had a phone contract with 8 months or so left to run but for some reason I thought it was just 2 months. Anyway long story short I owe/d Sunrise 600chf or something in the region of, but ended up forgetting about it.

A couple of months back IJ sent a letter with a demand for around 900 chf. I read this thread and ignored the demand. Fast forward to now and they've sent around three letters more, the latest one this week claiming that legal action will proceed immediately unless I pay. Apparently extra fines will be added and they'll set up a court case.

My question is: Is this true or are they scaremongering? Will they really take me to court over ca. 900 chf? I live in Germany now and all the letters are going to my parents' place in the UK. They don't know where I live currently. But if they're going to take me to court I guess that's a drama I could really do without. Any advice appreciated...
There is nothing that they can do to you as long as you don't want to live in CH anymore, write a nice letter and tell them very politely to fornicate with themselves, points for being extra sarcastic.
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Old 22.10.2015, 09:53
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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This is sound advice.
I worked in a department that issued monthly paper invoices (12 per year to each customer, plus reminders for late payments). Most of the enquiries were from people who didn't know where they were with their invoices, had lost one, had skipped one or paid one month twice and not the previous month which was a different amount, they were also bemused as to why their service was limited, blocked or why they had received a reminder bill and a Mahnung fee!


With E-banking it has become much easier to pay invoices quickly and no more trips to the post office, but the amount of people who still wait until the end of the month (some of the invoices by then of course expired) and go to the post office to queue up with a dozen or so payment slips or even the old yellow payment book is astounding, worse still is when they pay around Fr. 2'500 in cash!
I still pay some invoices in cash at the post office.

In some cases this is because I have signed up for services with fake names for data protection reasons and so I can't pay by E-banking. That is, until I can work out how to set up a bank account under the same name.
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Old 22.10.2015, 09:57
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

In any case, you only owe the original debt plus a bit of interest. You don't need to pay any charges added by Intrum Justitia.

Have a look at other threads here - other people have been in similar situations.
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Old 22.10.2015, 11:44
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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There is nothing that they can do to you as long as you don't want to live in CH anymore, write a nice letter and tell them very politely to fornicate with themselves, points for being extra sarcastic.
I've posted this a couple of times before and well, here we go again: There is very little they can do if you live in Switzerland as well - there is a clear legal path to get debtors to pay up, the Betreibung. The problem with this is that it is logical, stringent and efficient - in other words: there is very little money to be made. Intrum Justitia has for over a decade been yearly in the consumer programmes for stretching the laws: a 500 CHF fee is simply illegal in Switzerland for late payments. THis works in other countries but not here. All you legally are allowed to add is a typical interest rate and then some small fees for your effort to send a letter. Anything over 50CHF would be excessive.

The trick they are using is rather simple: they write very strong worded letters that sound highly legal and scare everyone who either is not very educated and does not understand them or - unfortunately for this forum - who does not speak German fluently and does not understand the Swiss legal system. I had my issues with them in the past and one thing is sure: they always knew they are wrong and knew I would win if they'd try to enforce their inflated demands. So they gave in after some time. Any downside? Yes: they do not just collect debts, they also offer a database to businesses with credit records. While I always paid my bills as long as they are legal do I apparently have a record now... which caused some minor inconveniences when getting a phone contract. That's all.
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Old 22.10.2015, 12:08
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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The trick they are using is rather simple: they write very strong worded letters that sound highly legal and scare everyone who either is not very educated and does not understand them or - unfortunately for this forum - who does not speak German fluently and does not understand the Swiss legal system. I had my issues with them in the past and one thing is sure: they always knew they are wrong and knew I would win if they'd try to enforce their inflated demands. So they gave in after some time. Any downside? Yes: they do not just collect debts, they also offer a database to businesses with credit records. While I always paid my bills as long as they are legal do I apparently have a record now... which caused some minor inconveniences when getting a phone contract. That's all.
Maybe you were just unlucky.

I had some trouble with them too (I think I wrote more about that on this forum in the distant past). I refused to pay and explained why not and they told me OK, but they were putting my name in that database. However to the best of my knowledge my name is not presently in any such database. My bank did some research on me two years ago over some money they lent me in a different context and they said they could find no such entry and my record was completely clean.
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Old 22.10.2015, 12:12
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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Maybe you were just unlucky.

I had some trouble with them too (I think I wrote more about that on this forum in the distant past). I refused to pay and explained why not and they told me OK, but they were putting my name in that database. However to the best of my knowledge my name is not presently in any such database. My bank did some research on me two years ago over some money they lent me in a different context and they said they could find no such entry and my record was completely clean.
I could check... when I incorporated a GmbH did I get within a week a nice letter from them offering their services... both incasso as well as credit rating db.
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Old 22.10.2015, 12:22
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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...a 500 CHF fee is simply illegal in Switzerland for late payments. THis works in other countries but not here. All you legally are allowed to add is a typical interest rate and then some small fees for your effort to send a letter. Anything over 50CHF would be excessive.
Yes. Intrum Justitia aren't actually breaking the law by demanding these extra fees. They're just not enforceable. So it's only the meek and the ignorant who actually pay.

IJ buys debts for a percentage of their face value, then tries to screw as much money as they can out of the debtor. I suppose it's one way of making a living.
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Old 22.10.2015, 12:27
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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Alright, but if I don't pay it are they going to sue me in absentia and I'll end up being disallowed from entering Switzerland or something absurd like that? How far can it escalate?
This is a civil matter. This isn't Dubai where being in debt is illegal and you will end up in jail.

If you had a speeding fine you hadn't paid it would be a different matter...but then again you broke the law by speeding, you didn't break the law by not paying your phone bill.
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Old 22.10.2015, 12:36
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Re: INTRUM JUSTITIA: how badly can they screw me up

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Yes. Intrum Justitia aren't actually breaking the law by demanding these extra fees. They're just not enforceable. So it's only the meek and the ignorant who actually pay.

IJ buys debts for a percentage of their face value, then tries to screw as much money as they can out of the debtor. I suppose it's one way of making a living.
Some would define the letters as coercion and the fees as usury, which are both laws... The Beobachter and all those consumer rights agencies had a couple of legal battles with them and now they word the letters in a way that they are probably legal, but still achieve the same...
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