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Old 15.06.2015, 15:42
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Investment fund

Hi All,

We are going abroad for a sabbatical year and have built up some savings to come back to. However, sitting in the UBS savings account they will build up practically zero interest over the time we are away. So we're thinking about ways to use that money better while we're away.

At this stage I'm not really interested in trading anything directly myself just yet, as while we are away I don't want to have to regularly check the state of things to see if we should be buying/selling.

One option is to leave a lump sum in a savings account with better interest, eg the CA Financements Evolution account at 0.85% is a good option as we already have our mortgage with them.

Another option that I've read about is to put the money into an investment vehicle which tracks a certain index/exchange. As our long-term future still lies in Switzerland, I think it's prudent for the moment to leave the money in CHF and track the Swiss index (SMI). Does anyone have any experience with funds that do that? I've asked UBS about it and they say it's possible with them, but their custody account will cost hundreds of francs to get started, so I'm wondering if there are better alternatives our there that someone here may know about?

Many thanks in advance,
G
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Old 15.06.2015, 16:20
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Re: Investment fund

You need to Google for information, as one needs to be registered financial advisers, under the law, before we can advise you.

I have heard that VZ give good advice, https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/individuals.html

Address

VZ VermögensZentrum
Rue Ami-Lévrier 15
1201 Geneva
Phone: 022 595 15 15
Fax: 022 595 15 16
E-mail: vzgeneve@vermoegenszentrum.ch

Business hours

From Monday through Friday, between 8 am and 6 pm



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Old 15.06.2015, 16:28
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Re: Investment fund

Thanks for that and for the link. I do appreciate the legal aspects and do not mean to be asking for financial planning/advice

It was more just in case someone else had done something similar (tracking the SMI with some kind of fund) and so we could hear what their own personal experience was with whatever institution offered the service.

Cheers,
G
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Old 15.06.2015, 16:43
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Re: Investment fund

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Thanks for that and for the link. I do appreciate the legal aspects and do not mean to be asking for financial planning/advice

It was more just in case someone else had done something similar (tracking the SMI with some kind of fund) and so we could hear what their own personal experience was with whatever institution offered the service.

Cheers,
G
65% of the SMI is just 3 stocks so I would not want to track that TBH.

I have recommended www.fundsmith.co.uk / www.fundsmith.eu several times in the last 30 months, I had about 5 years salary invested in the fund until last week when I added 80% of my Swiss Pension Fund which I took as cash.
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Old 16.06.2015, 00:25
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Re: Investment fund

Draghi today said that it is inevitable that the rich get richer as a result of the ongoing QE. There is no other way he said and the poor will benefit in the end if and when the economy gets going again.

there you go
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Old 16.06.2015, 12:32
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Re: Investment fund

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Draghi today said that it is inevitable that the rich get richer as a result of the ongoing QE. There is no other way he said and the poor will benefit in the end if and when the economy gets going again.

there you go
The poor will retain their jobs, if they blew less of their money on fast food, iPhones & leased cars they could invest their savings & become rich themselves.
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Old 16.06.2015, 12:38
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Re: Investment fund

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The poor will retain their jobs, if they blew less of their money on fast food, iPhones & leased cars they could invest their savings & become rich themselves.
Valid logic, with one minor problem. If you're living wage to wage, i.e. you're poor, there are not much savings. Lifestyle does play a lot obviously, but even if you don't get an iPhone every year and you don't have a car (at all) you save something like 5-6k/year.

Given that the poor also don't have access (in many ways) to investments that can produce a significant yield, they're stuck with essentially no interest rate at all. And with 5-6k/annum nobody got rich, not in CH and not even in most EU countries...
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Old 16.06.2015, 12:50
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Re: Investment fund

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Valid logic, with one minor problem. If you're living wage to wage, i.e. you're poor, there are not much savings. Lifestyle does play a lot obviously, but even if you don't get an iPhone every year and you don't have a car (at all) you save something like 5-6k/year.

Given that the poor also don't have access (in many ways) to investments that can produce a significant yield, they're stuck with essentially no interest rate at all. And with 5-6k/annum nobody got rich, not in CH and not even in most EU countries...
stocks have, say, a CAGR of around 8.5%. if you invested 6k a year since the age of 20, by 45, at this rate it would be worth 472k.
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Old 16.06.2015, 12:58
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Re: Investment fund

I'd be more concerned about just preserving my wealth, rather than trying to make it grow. I don't trust funds or financial institutions in the current climate. After marrying, my wife asked me to look at her portfolio. Among other things, she had Greek bonds, AIG, Leyman and Raiffeisen International. I said, "Sell all, buy physical gold" To my surprise, she did, and we've still got a roof over our heads. I've got to decide soon whether to take a lump sum from my Zweitesäule or monthly payments (I'm nearing 65). I just don't believe the insurer will be solvent in ten years. They are required to pay 6.8% interest on the principal. Since they can't earn that by banking (negative interest), they're doing derivatives and real estate. Deutsche Bank is exposed to 75 trillion in derivatives. Would you leave your money there? Thanks, but I just don't trust anyone now with my funds.
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Old 16.06.2015, 12:58
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Re: Investment fund

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stocks have, say, a CAGR of around 8.5%. if you invested 6k a year since the age of 20, by 45, at this rate it would be worth 472k.
Consumer Staples have returned nearer 16% over more than 40 years, which is why www.fundsmith.co.uk will likely sweep the board. That 6k a year will put you in the top 1%.
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:03
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Re: Investment fund

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I'd be more concerned about just preserving my wealth, rather than trying to make it grow. I don't trust funds or financial institutions in the current climate. After marrying, my wife asked me to look at her portfolio. Among other things, she had Greek bonds, AIG, Leyman and Raiffeisen International. I said, "Sell all, buy physical gold" To my surprise, she did, and we've still got a roof over our heads. I've got to decide soon whether to take a lump sum from my Zweitesäule or monthly payments (I'm nearing 65). I just don't believe the insurer will be solvent in ten years. They are required to pay 6.8% interest on the principal. Since they can't earn that by banking (negative interest), they're doing derivatives and real estate. Deutsche Bank is exposed to 75 trillion in derivatives. Would you leave your money there? Thanks, but I just don't trust anyone now with my funds.
I would never buy any bonds, equities always do better over the long run. A 65 year old should live 20 years so should have a long investment horizon.

What date was your advise? It seems unlikely that those investments would have been held during the time gold was a good investment.
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Valid logic, with one minor problem. If you're living wage to wage, i.e. you're poor, there are not much savings. Lifestyle does play a lot obviously, but even if you don't get an iPhone every year and you don't have a car (at all) you save something like 5-6k/year.

Given that the poor also don't have access (in many ways) to investments that can produce a significant yield, they're stuck with essentially no interest rate at all. And with 5-6k/annum nobody got rich, not in CH and not even in most EU countries...
Fund smith accept £100 a month or £1000 / 2000 euro min lump sum investment so the poor do indeed have access to such investments.
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:05
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Re: Investment fund

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stocks have, say, a CAGR of around 8.5%. if you invested 6k a year since the age of 20, by 45, at this rate it would be worth 472k.
The CAGR for the MCSI World index is about 6.5% for the last 25 years.

But even with that lower value, you'd get 382k after those 25 years, which many people would say is rich, or at least pretty well off.
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:24
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Re: Investment fund

is there an idiots guide to investing? It'd daunting as you can make a wrong move and get nothing back but the banks pay nothing now too but we hope they are safe!
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:36
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Re: Investment fund

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is there an idiots guide to investing? It'd daunting as you can make a wrong move and get nothing back but the banks pay nothing now too but we hope they are safe!
100's most of which were written by idiots that never made any money investing.
If it's an insurance product run a long way very fast, lots of charges & below average performance.

Very few fund managers beat the index that they are trying to beat. Index funds sound interesting till you look at what is in the index.

SMI current approximate weighting Novartis 23%, Nestle 22%, Roche 17%. Thats not a good way to invest. China indexes have a huge proportion of Banking stocks, I would not invest in a CH bank so why would I want a Chinese Bank!

S&P 500 is the only index I would invest in.
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:51
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Re: Investment fund

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100's most of which were written by idiots that never made any money investing.

that is why people find it hard!
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Old 16.06.2015, 14:37
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Re: Investment fund

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investment so the poor do indeed have access to such investments.
Again, valid point, but "access" is not just affording the fees, or finding the investment/broker/whatever. Many people just don't "trust" investments without of course realising that everything has risk, including their salaries, their pensions, and the money in their bank accounts. Lacking access is more about a state of mind/matter of opinion.

I would struggle to find many middle-class people that would even consider investing at any point in their lives. I can't imagine 99% of the population in my hometown doing so for example.

So yeah, of course there are ways, and they're much more accessible than most people believe. But still, most people don't even consider it, it doesn't even cross their mind.

Maybe "access" was poor choice of word
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Old 16.06.2015, 14:46
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Re: Investment fund

Zerohedge.com is a site where you can read financial news that the conventional media won't touch. The comments to the articles are often very enlightening.
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Old 16.06.2015, 14:46
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Re: Investment fund

Thanks for all your thoughts/experiences. Off to the fundsmith site to start reading up on what they offer! :-)

Cheers,
G
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Old 16.06.2015, 15:19
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Re: Investment fund

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Again, valid point, but "access" is not just affording the fees, or finding the investment/broker/whatever. Many people just don't "trust" investments without of course realising that everything has risk, including their salaries, their pensions, and the money in their bank accounts. Lacking access is more about a state of mind/matter of opinion.

I would struggle to find many middle-class people that would even consider investing at any point in their lives. I can't imagine 99% of the population in my hometown doing so for example.

So yeah, of course there are ways, and they're much more accessible than most people believe. But still, most people don't even consider it, it doesn't even cross their mind.

Maybe "access" was poor choice of word
I always heard there were loads of investment clubs in the US & members all pooled $10 a month so they could invest in 1 stock a month.

If really only 1% of middle class invest that could be the reason why 1% of the population are very much richer, however it's not that simple. If you won't take any risk then you won't get rich from a pay check. Several years ago I mentioned on the forum when Apple shares collapsed I wanted them to fall further & invest 90% of my wealth in Apple, Apple was already my biggest stock holding, everybody here thought I was crazy as the informed opinion was Apple was toast. Without doubt hat was the easiest 100% plus profit I pulled off. I mentioned Fundsmith & again much skepticism since then up 50% & will be good to hold forever.

It's hardly surprising that business that have high costs of replacing equipment & retooling will ever make money in the long run, Airlines & car manufactures are 2 obvious examples of that.
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Old 16.06.2015, 15:57
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Re: Investment fund

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It's hardly surprising that business that have high costs of replacing equipment & retooling will ever make money in the long run, Airlines & car manufactures are 2 obvious examples of that.
I'd mention Intel as a counter example - massive investment in equipment, but a nice quarterly dividend and growth. To be fair having 80%+ market share doesn't hurt.

Apple was a gamble that paid off; Terry Smith would kick you out of Fundsmith though if he found out
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