Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02.07.2015, 23:57
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: the middle of lake geneva
Posts: 153
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts
josquius has no particular reputation at present
Saving money from Switzerland

In Switzerland I am like most of you being paid silly money.
I am also paying silly money for most things.
But nonetheless I'm managing to save a half decent amount of cash.
Now that I'm in the green I think its about time I seriously look into saving and maximising that.
The bank account my company sorted for me here...well it has virtually no interest rate and doesn't seem a optimum saving place. Its just a current account.
My initial idea was to send money back to the UK and get an ISA, but it seems you're not allowed to do that if you're living abroad.
I am British and don't intend to stay in Switzerland forever so if I can have my money over there that would be perfect. Though any ways of maximising money here would also be helpful providing there's not too much French involved.
Any ideas?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03.07.2015, 00:01
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,087
Groaned at 924 Times in 720 Posts
Thanked 19,618 Times in 9,440 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

After thirty years mostly above the EF minimum, I haven't saved squat!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 03.07.2015, 00:08
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,724
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,034 Times in 6,259 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
In Switzerland I am like most of you being paid silly money.
I am also paying silly money for most things.
But nonetheless I'm managing to save a half decent amount of cash.
Now that I'm in the green I think its about time I seriously look into saving and maximising that.
The bank account my company sorted for me here...well it has virtually no interest rate and doesn't seem a optimum saving place. Its just a current account.
My initial idea was to send money back to the UK and get an ISA, but it seems you're not allowed to do that if you're living abroad.
I am British and don't intend to stay in Switzerland forever so if I can have my money over there that would be perfect. Though any ways of maximising money here would also be helpful providing there's not too much French involved.
Any ideas?
Switzerland does not have any CGT so whilst here you get zero benefit from an ISA.
I have a huge investment in www.fundsmith.co.uk, I like equity investments & managed to retire at 52 due to investment performance Fundsmith to me is pretty low risk for the return, I wish it had been around 30 years ago, I would have retired at 42
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 03.07.2015, 12:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 623
Groaned at 98 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 396 Times in 216 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland does not have any CGT so whilst here you get zero benefit from an ISA.
I have a huge investment in www.fundsmith.co.uk, I like equity investments & managed to retire at 52 due to investment performance Fundsmith to me is pretty low risk for the return, I wish it had been around 30 years ago, I would have retired at 42
Very encouraging that you were able to retire at 52 thanks to Fundmisth. How long have you been investing with them?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03.07.2015, 14:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,724
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,034 Times in 6,259 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Very encouraging that you were able to retire at 52 thanks to Fundmisth. How long have you been investing with them?
I made my own investment decisions that mainly paid off, I took a far higher risk than Fundsmith do & did only slightly better, however that was more luck with BIDU , Netflix & Apple, than anything else. My first investment with Fundsmith was almost 3 years ago, I have been keeping an eye on Terry Smith since he wrote Accounting for Growth, which resulted in him being fired as his book was very negative on a no. of his employers clients. Not many people have the balls to do that.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
This user groans at fatmanfilms for this post:
  #6  
Old 03.07.2015, 16:13
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 623
Groaned at 98 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 396 Times in 216 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I made my own investment decisions that mainly paid off, I took a far higher risk than Fundsmith do & did only slightly better, however that was more luck with BIDU , Netflix & Apple, than anything else. My first investment with Fundsmith was almost 3 years ago, I have been keeping an eye on Terry Smith since he wrote Accounting for Growth, which resulted in him being fired as his book was very negative on a no. of his employers clients. Not many people have the balls to do that.
Thanks for the clarification because that's not what I had understood from your post (sorry but English is not my first language).

Quote:
View Post
I have a huge investment in www.fundsmith.co.uk, I like equity investments & managed to retire at 52 due to investment performance Fundsmith to me is pretty low risk for the return, I wish it had been around 30 years ago, I would have retired at 42
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03.07.2015, 16:23
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,724
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,034 Times in 6,259 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the clarification because that's not what I had understood from your post (sorry but English is not my first language).
Well the fund has only been going since late 2010, I have been investing since 2012.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03.07.2015, 19:12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 44
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 36 Times in 14 Posts
US Alien has no particular reputation at present
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Since you're British, you may want to see if you're eligible to invest in an ISA back home, but you might not be due to residence abroad. When you are eligible for an ISA, maximize your earnings potential through a shares ISA or take a safe path with a cash ISA.

Another way to put your money to work could be investing in real estate in the UK, which isn't as much a high point as CH. Ask yourself, which is more likely to fall based on recent events. Think about hot spots like London, Cambridge, Manchester...

Or, there' stocks and bonds, but it's up to you to decide to give it to someone else to play with for a fee. That fee can be significant over the course of a working lifetime.

Probably the way to invest it for the highest payout is either in further education or your own business!

Otherwise, please, tell me the way!

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03.07.2015, 19:46
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Aargau
Posts: 846
Groaned at 322 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 324 Times in 229 Posts
plumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

You can have an ISA in the U.K. whilst you're here. Alternatively you could put it in an ISA in the name of a close relative there. There is nothing stopping you from taking the money to the U.K. or sending it there in some form either.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank plumtree for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at plumtree for this post:
  #10  
Old 03.07.2015, 19:49
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,724
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,034 Times in 6,259 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
You can have an ISA in the U.K. whilst you're here. Alternatively you could put it in an ISA in the name of a close relative there. There is nothing stopping you from taking the money to the U.K. or sending it there in some form either.
Absolute nonsense, when you take out an ISA you declare that you are tax resident in the UK. That would be foolish as you would become liable to UK taxes on your Swiss income.

Putting the money in someone else's name without declaring the fact amounts to money laundering.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 03.07.2015, 20:13
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 721
Groaned at 124 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 583 Times in 271 Posts
Troublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthyTroublawesome is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

+1 this is illegal and really bad advice for the ISA too!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03.07.2015, 21:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 2,323
Groaned at 31 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,518 Times in 1,232 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
After thirty years mostly above the EF minimum, I haven't saved squat!

Tom
Ditto. it's a different world out there these days Tom!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Anjela for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 04.07.2015, 07:59
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Aargau
Posts: 846
Groaned at 322 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 324 Times in 229 Posts
plumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Absolute nonsense, when you take out an ISA you declare that you are tax resident in the UK. That would be foolish as you would become liable to UK taxes on your Swiss income.

Putting the money in someone else's name without declaring the fact amounts to money laundering.
Not at all, you can give the money to a relative for safe keeping and they can invest it for you whilst you are away. It is possible.

Whether it is actually not legal for you yourself to open an ISA in the U.K. whilst you are resident/tax resident in Switzerland I don't know. I didn't state it was legal.

It is possible to be resident in both countries at the same time, if you are living and working in Switzerland, you are tax resident in Switzerland and pay your taxes here, but this doesn't imply that you are not resident in the U.K. also, - for not all countries are like Switzerland where you are supposed to announce arrival and departure every time to the authorities. In the U.K. this does not occur in any way for British citizens or other citizens with right to abode there. Arrivals and departures occur but are not recorded in any way. In the U.K. anybody could potentially maintain a residence just by receiving post at an address.
If you don't have any activity in the U.K. generating income, you are clearly not paying tax in the U.K. at all and have no contact whatsoever with the Inland Revenue there.

I am not stating that maintaining residence in both/multiple countries is morally correct or legal, I don't know if it is or not, I'm merely stating that it is possible since I know of cases, one of whom (not myself, I do not bank in the UK at present) does indeed also have an ISA there as an investment! If my friend did sign a declaration stating that she is tax resident in the U.K. as you said, then I would definitely agree with you in that she made a false declaration.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users groan at plumtree for this post:
  #14  
Old 04.07.2015, 11:25
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,724
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,034 Times in 6,259 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Not at all, you can give the money to a relative for safe keeping and they can invest it for you whilst you are away. It is possible.



Whether it is actually not legal for you yourself to open an ISA in the U.K. whilst you are resident/tax resident in Switzerland I don't know. I didn't state it was legal.



It is possible to be resident in both countries at the same time, if you are living and working in Switzerland, you are tax resident in Switzerland and pay your taxes here, but this doesn't imply that you are not resident in the U.K. also, - for not all countries are like Switzerland where you are supposed to announce arrival and departure every time to the authorities. In the U.K. this does not occur in any way for British citizens or other citizens with right to abode there. Arrivals and departures occur but are not recorded in any way. In the U.K. anybody could potentially maintain a residence just by receiving post at an address.

If you don't have any activity in the U.K. generating income, you are clearly not paying tax in the U.K. at all and have no contact whatsoever with the Inland Revenue there.



I am not stating that maintaining residence in both/multiple countries is morally correct or legal, I don't know if it is or not, I'm merely stating that it is possible since I know of cases, one of whom (not myself, I do not bank in the UK at present) does indeed also have an ISA there as an investment! If my friend did sign a declaration stating that she is tax resident in the U.K. as you said, then I would definitely agree with you in that she made a false declaration.

What you are suggesting is a criminal offence & the money can be confiscated.

If you wish someone to look after your money you give them a power of attorney, they act in your name.

UK tax is self assessment, it's not illegal to open an ISA, however your claiming to be a UK resident for tax purposes. It's all very simple.....

If you have an existing ISA you can keep it, should you wish to transfer to another provider you need to cross out the part of the declaration that says your UK resident. You can't make further contributions.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 04.07.2015, 12:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rotkreuz ZG
Posts: 504
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 563 Times in 268 Posts
heckenhocker has an excellent reputationheckenhocker has an excellent reputationheckenhocker has an excellent reputationheckenhocker has an excellent reputation
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
not all countries are like Switzerland where you are supposed to announce arrival and departure every time to the authorities. In the U.K. this does not occur in any way for British citizens or other citizens with right to abode there. Arrivals and departures occur but are not recorded in any way.
Not true....any flight into UK has to submit pre-flight information including the name and passport details of the passengers. Don't know if the same is true for Eurotunnel / ferry, but certainly air arrival is recorded.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank heckenhocker for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 05.07.2015, 11:27
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Aargau
Posts: 846
Groaned at 322 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 324 Times in 229 Posts
plumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Not true....any flight into UK has to submit pre-flight information including the name and passport details of the passengers. Don't know if the same is true for Eurotunnel / ferry, but certainly air arrival is recorded.
I believe that only the name and possibly the date of birth are the two essential pieces of information for the airline to enable you to fly.

The document number, document type, the nationality or the address are not recorded anywhere. Some of those things might be recorded in the booking, but not all of them, particularly in multiple-person bookings, they are also not essential to allow you to fly either. You could indicate any address when booking a flight. Most passports do not record the address inside either. An address can also change.

Documents are not scanned when you go through immigration. Some passports do not have a barcode/are not machine readable in any case.

Some people carry more than one document with them, Identity cards, passports, driving licences, others have several because they have multiple nationality.

Moreover as you mentioned, you can get across on a ferry or through the Chunnel, not to mention the Irish border, and you can be backwards and forwards all the time, without it being recorded.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05.07.2015, 11:41
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,724
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,034 Times in 6,259 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Not true....any flight into UK has to submit pre-flight information including the name and passport details of the passengers. Don't know if the same is true for Eurotunnel / ferry, but certainly air arrival is recorded.
Pre flight passenger information does not mean the person actually took the flight, I have failed to fly on 3 occasions in 2015 after submitting info.

You can also arrive or depart the UK by a private sailing or motorboat, no booking info even exists
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 10.07.2015, 11:42
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Aargau
Posts: 846
Groaned at 322 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 324 Times in 229 Posts
plumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post

You can also arrive or depart the UK by a private sailing or motorboat, no booking info even exists
Lovely!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10.07.2015, 11:59
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I believe that only the name and possibly the date of birth are the two essential pieces of information for the airline to enable you to fly.

The document number, document type, the nationality or the address are not recorded anywhere. Some of those things might be recorded in the booking, but not all of them, particularly in multiple-person bookings, they are also not essential to allow you to fly either. You could indicate any address when booking a flight. Most passports do not record the address inside either. An address can also change.

Documents are not scanned when you go through immigration. Some passports do not have a barcode/are not machine readable in any case.

Some people carry more than one document with them, Identity cards, passports, driving licences, others have several because they have multiple nationality.

Moreover as you mentioned, you can get across on a ferry or through the Chunnel, not to mention the Irish border, and you can be backwards and forwards all the time, without it being recorded.
You believe incorrectly - the eBorders Advance Passenger Information requirements collect name, date of birth, sex, nationality and passport number. It is a requirement for all airline carriers operating cross-border in the UK.

The European Passenger Name Record requirements are similar to what you state however, but are a subset of the UK ones.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 10.07.2015, 12:05
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Aargau
Posts: 846
Groaned at 322 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 324 Times in 229 Posts
plumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthy
Re: Saving money from Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
You believe incorrectly - the eBorders Advance Passenger Information requirements collect name, date of birth, sex, nationality and passport number. It is a requirement for all airline carriers operating cross-border in the UK.

The European Passenger Name Record requirements are similar to what you state however, but are a subset of the UK ones.
I understand your point, but at what time is the passport number and nationality recorded? The passport is not always scanned or its number typed in anywhere at the airport(s).
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saving money on lunch Phil_MCR Finance/banking/taxation 23 11.11.2014 22:00
Saving money on food ruchiksy Food and drink 49 09.08.2012 17:10
Saving Money on Transaction/Transfer Fees? skippie Finance/banking/taxation 1 08.06.2012 02:03
Money into Pension Fund & Tax Saving ? Ashish Finance/banking/taxation 17 20.11.2011 21:38
Money-saving tips for moving oognip Housing in general 0 19.07.2009 21:19


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0