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Old 10.02.2016, 14:25
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Postfinance e-trading experiences?

Any experience with Postfinance e-trading platform / fees compared to interactive brokers / swissquote? (https://www.postfinance.ch/en/priv/p...de/detail.html)

It's free it seems but to buy a stock you pay 25 CHF.
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Old 10.02.2016, 17:25
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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Any experience with Postfinance e-trading platform / fees compared to interactive brokers / swissquote? (https://www.postfinance.ch/en/priv/p...de/detail.html)

It's free it seems but to buy a stock you pay 25 CHF.
Fees are high if you do large value transactions. It cost me several thousand to leave...........
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  #3  
Old 10.02.2016, 18:01
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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Fees are high if you do large value transactions. It cost me several thousand to leave...........
Can you elaborate why it costs to leave? What means "large value" in numbers?
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Old 10.02.2016, 18:05
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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Can you elaborate why it costs to leave? What means "large value" in numbers?
Fees are not capped at 25, so if you trade 5k, 10k, 20k,50k per transaction you will pay through the nose. a US broker will charge $9.95 for a 500k transaction.
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Old 10.02.2016, 20:33
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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It cost me several thousand to leave...........
(Postfinance)

So where does one go for
* bog standard transactions around CHF 10k - 25k
* very low frequency of trading
* depositing (i.e. "convenient" tax reporting)
* zero advisory (yes, mam, your advice is as good as the analyst report on some random web site, no robots are not my thing, thank you)

I want to minimize
* transaction cost
* cost of deposit

I am not interested in
* speed of execution
* advisory (anybody ever read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rand...wn_Wall_Street ?)
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Old 10.02.2016, 20:37
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

Postfinance: expensive.

Interactive Brokers: more complex user interface, but fits your cost criteria.
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Old 10.02.2016, 21:41
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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I am not interested in
* speed of execution
)
You should be as prices change...... it's actual a legal requirement for best execution, on 1 occasion post finance screwed up & did pay me compensation when I complained.
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Old 11.02.2016, 07:48
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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You should be as prices change
I was trying to say that intraday execution is not something I care about. For that I (do not) play the lottery

Correct execution (given enough liquidity in a normally behaving market) I take as a given.
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Old 11.02.2016, 09:30
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

Here is a comparison of online trading fees, courtesy of Cash. One should also consider the costs of quarterly fees of having an account with these institutions.
postfinance-e-trading-experiences-trading-fees.jpg
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  #10  
Old 11.02.2016, 09:52
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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I was trying to say that intraday execution is not something I care about. For that I (do not) play the lottery

Correct execution (given enough liquidity in a normally behaving market) I take as a given.

Funds generally trade at the same time every day, stocks the price moves every second of every day.

Selling or Buying at best should always be a requirement for an order without limits. Even more important in volatile markets.

Why do you equate the purchase of fractional ownership of a business with buying a lottery ticket? Seems an odd comparison
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Old 11.02.2016, 10:28
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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Why do you equate the purchase of fractional ownership of a business with buying a lottery ticket? Seems an odd comparison
I don't - it's the timing (i.e. the exact time of price fixing) that I am referring to.

I have the greatest respect for those (humans / machines) who can make money on short(est) scale timing.

Background: My education about (financial) markets started with Brownian motion, continued to Fama and signalling, and then ended up with information asymmetries.
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Old 11.02.2016, 11:15
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

If I just want to buy certain stocks (total trading volume 10k CHF) and hold them for a year, isn't PF cheap enough then?
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Old 11.02.2016, 11:47
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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If I just want to buy certain stocks (total trading volume 10k CHF) and hold them for a year, isn't PF cheap enough then?
Possibly. That's why I asked: "So where does one go"
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Old 11.02.2016, 17:02
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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If I just want to buy certain stocks (total trading volume 10k CHF) and hold them for a year, isn't PF cheap enough then?
You want to buy for 10k, you don't want to sell for 10K you want to sell for considerably more than you paid. This is why it was so expensive to leave PF.

Why hold for a year? as this is the time it takes for the earth to orbit the sun, unless its a farming business a year has no relevance to the business cycle.
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Old 11.02.2016, 19:15
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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Why hold for a year? as this is the time it takes for the earth to orbit the sun, unless its a farming business a year has no relevance to the business cycle.


LOL and this is where the lottery comes back in to the picture. Most passive investors are secretly hoping they'll hit the next appl, tsla, lnkd etc and they'll see their 10k become 100k overnight, maybe in a year, 2, whatever. Or worse, believe the hype that some of these will continue to the moon!

With a buy-and-hold strategy you have at best a 50-50 chance of being right and that does not count the costs. Why not choose a strategy that gives you a better than 50-50 chance, set a profit target, take it, be happy and move on to the next set-up. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. Many small trades with even slightly better odds of 55-45 in your favour overtime will beat the passive buy-and-hold strategy.

back on topic: an average of 35 CHF/USD/GBP per trade (x2, in-out) is a total scam in Switzerland. Go to a reputable US based broker where things are much more competitive. fatmanfilms has recommended several in other threads which I agree with. I like these: IB, TDAmeritrade.

bill
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Old 11.02.2016, 19:43
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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LOL and this is where the lottery comes back in to the picture. Most passive investors are secretly hoping they'll hit the next appl, tsla, lnkd etc and they'll see their 10k become 100k overnight, maybe in a year, 2, whatever. Or worse, believe the hype that some of these will continue to the moon!

With a buy-and-hold strategy you have at best a 50-50 chance of being right and that does not count the costs. Why not choose a strategy that gives you a better than 50-50 chance, set a profit target, take it, be happy and move on to the next set-up. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. Many small trades with even slightly better odds of 55-45 in your favour overtime will beat the passive buy-and-hold strategy.

back on topic: an average of 35 CHF/USD/GBP per trade (x2, in-out) is a total scam in Switzerland. Go to a reputable US based broker where things are much more competitive. fatmanfilms has recommended several in other threads which I agree with. I like these: IB, TDAmeritrade.

bill
A company which makes 90% plus of it's profits in CASH, each year will have a much better chance of success than 50%. Find such a company & never sell rather than to find a greater fool.

If you exclude Banks , Airlines, Car manufactures & companies that require huge investment each year, producing 90% of their profits as cash trading below a PE of 16, you will do well. Under 100 such companies in the world so not much point in selling just because a year has past.

BTW have you got 2 accounts? it's not allowed here.
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Old 11.02.2016, 19:58
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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A company which makes 90% plus of it's profits in CASH, each year will have a much better chance of success than 50%. Find such a company & never sell rather than to find a greater fool.

If you exclude Banks , Airlines, Car manufactures & companies that require huge investment each year, producing 90% of their profits as cash trading below a PE of 16, you will do well. Under 100 such companies in the world so not much point in selling just because a year has past.
Only if the market agrees with you. You are at the mercy of the irrational interpretation of what other human (or otherwise) traders 'feel' for your company.

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BTW have you got 2 accounts? it's not allowed here.
I don't understand where this comes from. bill_door is my only account.
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Old 11.02.2016, 22:17
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

What I don't like with PF:
- if you want to move your assets to another broker, you need to pay 100-150 CHF per item. At IB with ACATS there are no fees.

- if you want a tax statement it's 10chf per position (whereas I get it free from IB).
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Old 11.02.2016, 23:03
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Re: Postfinance e-trading experiences?

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Only if the market agrees with you. You are at the mercy of the irrational interpretation of what other human (or otherwise) traders 'feel' for your company.



I don't understand where this comes from. bill_door is my only account.
I don't really care what the market thinks, if I can buy a company 50% below intrinsic value eventually the market will agree with me.
As Benjamin Grahame said about 80 years ago, in the short term the market is a voting machine, in the long term it's a weighing machine. I am happy till wait & I don't care what the market thinks today, it's wrong most of the time.
Traders need a job so they can eat, I don't need a job that is the big difference.
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