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Old 11.06.2016, 01:31
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Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

Has anyone experience of transferring securities from a UBS custody account to a PostFinance one, using the PF "Electronic securities delivery in e-trading" form?

If so, how much did UBS charge for the transfer, and was it executed expeditiously? PF charge CHF 108 for making a securities transfer in the opposite direction (ie, from PF to a bank), but I suspect that UBS may charge more than this.
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Old 11.06.2016, 09:08
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

I inquired recently and was quoted 120. Think it will be cheaper and simpler to just sell and buy new at PF.
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Old 11.06.2016, 11:57
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

Their prices are listed at Custody Account

Your question, specifically under 'Outward deliveries' in Securties deliveries price list
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Old 11.06.2016, 12:00
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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I inquired recently and was quoted 120. Think it will be cheaper and simpler to just sell and buy new at PF.
Why sell? If you have made a book gain, youŽd lose that buy selling?
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Old 11.06.2016, 12:07
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Why sell? If you have made a book gain, youŽd lose that buy selling?
Sorry, but am not following what you saying here?
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Old 11.06.2016, 13:00
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Their prices are listed at Custody Account

Your question, specifically under 'Outward deliveries' in Securities deliveries price list
Thanks a lot for this info, jaudi. With UBS brokerage fees alone (including the e-banking discount of 25%) of CHF 750 on each CHF 100,000 sell transaction, it looks like in my case direct transfers to PF with UBS outward delivery fees of only CHF 100 per security are the way to go.
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Old 12.06.2016, 01:08
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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I inquired recently and was quoted 120. Think it will be cheaper and simpler to just sell and buy new at PF.
Depends on the amounts involved, but generally cheaper to transfer. Don't forget Stamp Duty on top of brokerage (x2) if you sell&buy.

Also, if you have a significant private banking portfolio move, usually the receiving bank will credit you back the transfer fee charged by sending bank if you discuss beforehand.
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Old 12.06.2016, 02:02
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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...

Also, if you have a significant private banking portfolio move, usually the receiving bank will credit you back the transfer fee charged by sending bank if you discuss beforehand.
According to the security deliveries price list cited by jaudi, UBS charge CHF 100 (+VAT) per security transferred. As I do have a fairly substantial portfolio to move over (both in terms of the number and the value of the securities) it would be rather nice if PostFinance covered the UBS charges. Has anyone found that PF offer this?
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Old 12.06.2016, 16:50
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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According to the security deliveries price list cited by jaudi, UBS charge CHF 100 (+VAT) per security transferred. As I do have a fairly substantial portfolio to move over (both in terms of the number and the value of the securities) it would be rather nice if PostFinance covered the UBS charges. Has anyone found that PF offer this?
Really not much to do except talk to your acct mgr on the receiving end and try to negotiate with him/her. Especially because now he/she probably has already filed some internal client acquisition memo with AUMs that make him/her looks good. Definitely wouldn't want the client to slip away.
Or negotiate a rebate on other fees that can compensate the transfer costs.
Just my 2 rappens' worth
(been there, seen that)
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Old 12.06.2016, 17:10
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Really not much to do except talk to your acct mgr on the receiving end and try to negotiate with him/her. Especially because now he/she probably has already filed some internal client acquisition memo with AUMs that make him/her looks good. Definitely wouldn't want the client to slip away.
Or negotiate a rebate on other fees that can compensate the transfer costs.
Just my 2 rappens' worth
(been there, seen that)
Thanks, Uncle GroOve. I shall certainly give this a try (and report back to the forum in due course). However I'm not too optimistic about the possibility of a rebate, since I suspect that PostFinance employees may have less freedom to bend the rules than the account manager of a private bank. Or have you been there, seen that, with PF? (Precedent would be an excellent argument...)
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Old 12.06.2016, 17:23
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Depends on the amounts involved, but generally cheaper to transfer. Don't forget Stamp Duty on top of brokerage (x2) if you sell&buy.

Also, if you have a significant private banking portfolio move, usually the receiving bank will credit you back the transfer fee charged by sending bank if you discuss beforehand.
Stamp Duty is on purchases not sales.

A very good reason to buy stocks in the USA as ADR's, no stamp duty
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Old 12.06.2016, 23:45
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Thanks, Uncle GroOve. I shall certainly give this a try (and report back to the forum in due course). However I'm not too optimistic about the possibility of a rebate, since I suspect that PostFinance employees may have less freedom to bend the rules than the account manager of a private bank. Or have you been there, seen that, with PF? (Precedent would be an excellent argument...)
Hm. I may have missed a point then. How did you open your PF account? Online or through a representative? A rep / acct mgr has vested interests in increasing his /her AUMs therefore might be more incline to give you a rebate (which is not necessarily "bending the rules").
If you did everything online, well, then you're basically an anonymous acct holder and probably nobody notices you.
Are you planning to transfer because of the Swissquote trading platform? If so do consider how much you'll be saving in commissions vs. keeping everything at UBS and trading through them (100 Sfr a pop IIRC).
Work out your trading activity (if any), commissions you're currently paying and how much you'll be saving and then make your move IMHO.
G'luck!
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Old 13.06.2016, 00:26
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Hm. I may have missed a point then. How did you open your PF account? Online or through a representative? A rep / acct mgr has vested interests in increasing his /her AUMs therefore might be more incline to give you a rebate (which is not necessarily "bending the rules").
If you did everything online, well, then you're basically an anonymous acct holder and probably nobody notices you.
Are you planning to transfer because of the Swissquote trading platform? If so do consider how much you'll be saving in commissions vs. keeping everything at UBS and trading through them (100 Sfr a pop IIRC).
Work out your trading activity (if any), commissions you're currently paying and how much you'll be saving and then make your move IMHO.
G'luck!
Thanks, Uncle GroOve.
I did indeed open my PostFinance account online. I don't know whether PF will in due course assign me a personal client advisor as for UBS. I'm quite happy with an efficient online service without a personal account manager, if that is one reason why the PF charges appear to be so much lower than UBS.

Lower custody fees is one of several reasons why I'm interested in transferring at least some of my securities from UBS to PostFinance. According to their online e-trading price list, from 1 July 2016 the flat rate for a PF custody account will be CHF 90 per annum. Furthermore, this fee is converted into trading credits of an equivalent value.

By comparison, UBS charge me custody fees calculated as a percentage of portfolio value, and they total many KCHF per annum. This covers all the usual administrative costs connected with the portfolio, such as dealing with splits and rights issues, collecting dividends and capital repayments, executing standing fund reinvestment orders, providing end of year statements for tax purposes, etc.

On the face of it, the fee for a PF custody account appears to be so much more favourable than UBS that I'm wondering whether I'm missing something. Can someone with a PF custody account confirm that there are no hidden charges or other catch? Are the normal custody account services included in the PF flat fee?
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Old 13.06.2016, 11:37
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Thanks, Uncle GroOve.
I did indeed open my PostFinance account online. I don't know whether PF will in due course assign me a personal client advisor as for UBS. I'm quite happy with an efficient online service without a personal account manager, if that is one reason why the PF charges appear to be so much lower than UBS.

Lower custody fees is one of several reasons why I'm interested in transferring at least some of my securities from UBS to PostFinance. According to their online e-trading price list, from 1 July 2016 the flat rate for a PF custody account will be CHF 90 per annum. Furthermore, this fee is converted into trading credits of an equivalent value.

By comparison, UBS charge me custody fees calculated as a percentage of portfolio value, and they total many KCHF per annum. This covers all the usual administrative costs connected with the portfolio, such as dealing with splits and rights issues, collecting dividends and capital repayments, executing standing fund reinvestment orders, providing end of year statements for tax purposes, etc.

On the face of it, the fee for a PF custody account appears to be so much more favourable than UBS that I'm wondering whether I'm missing something. Can someone with a PF custody account confirm that there are no hidden charges or other catch? Are the normal custody account services included in the PF flat fee?
Found this link
https://www.postfinance.ch/en/priv/p...est/trade.html

The "catch" is that in UBS you would have an advisor following your account, but in Postfinance, from what I can see, it's all up to machines, algos, and being treated as a number.
Important: make sure and do verify if all your securities (stocks, funds, derivatives, etc) are tradable on the PF platform....
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Old 13.06.2016, 12:08
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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The "catch" is that in UBS you would have an advisor following your account, but in Postfinance, from what I can see, it's all up to machines, algos, and being treated as a number.
Important: make sure and do verify if all your securities (stocks, funds, derivatives, etc) are tradable on the PF platform....
Excellent. As I said, in view of the huge difference in custody fees between UBS and PostFinance I'm quite happy with an efficient online service without a personal account manager. So if that is the only "catch", I'll start transferring securities from UBS to my new PF custody account.

To test the water I've sent an order to transfer one security of value around 100 KCHF. If something unexpected gives me a nasty surprise, it will only cost CHF 108 to move it back again.

The PF price list also indicates that there will be an annual fee of CHF 90 "for the use of e-trading", that will be charged for the first time in January 2017 and which will also be converted into trading credits. I presume that this fee is in addition to the CHF 90 per annum custody account charge? Or does it refer to the same charge?
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Old 13.06.2016, 20:18
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

Just be prepared to be patient with the transfer. I transferred holdings from a UK broker to UBS and it took ages....a fair bit of incompetence on both sides from what I could gather...I assumed they just had to press a few buttons on the sending side, but discovered email trails etc. between the two sides trying to clarify various details and it appeared no-one really chasing it to make it happen. Maybe within the same jurisdiction will be simpler.
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Old 13.06.2016, 20:45
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Just be prepared to be patient with the transfer. I transferred holdings from a UK broker to UBS and it took ages....a fair bit of incompetence on both sides from what I could gather...I assumed they just had to press a few buttons on the sending side, but discovered email trails etc. between the two sides trying to clarify various details and it appeared no-one really chasing it to make it happen. Maybe within the same jurisdiction will be simpler.
Yes, the process doesn't seem to be well automated, as you can fill in the transfer form on the PF e-trading website, but then you have to print it out and mail it to the sending bank by post after signature. No real hurry, though.
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Old 21.06.2016, 07:40
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Re: Transferring securities from UBS to PostFinance

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Just be prepared to be patient with the transfer. I transferred holdings from a UK broker to UBS and it took ages....a fair bit of incompetence on both sides from what I could gather...I assumed they just had to press a few buttons on the sending side, but discovered email trails etc. between the two sides trying to clarify various details and it appeared no-one really chasing it to make it happen. Maybe within the same jurisdiction will be simpler.
So far so good. For my first test transfer, UBS took a few days to act. (Since my client advisor had moved, the order may initially have gone to the wrong branch). Then the security disappeared from my UBS custody account on Friday and appeared in the PF one on Monday afternoon. UBS charged CHF 108 for the transfer, as per their price list.
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