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Old 07.07.2016, 13:59
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Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

Dear all,
When I created a 3rd Pillar account, I didn't know exactly what it means (my fault) and I believe the bank officer did not tell me everything (not my fault), especially that you can't easily withdraw your account. I even couldn't use the tax benefit that year because they didn't tell me I have to fill a tax form.

Now, may I ask, what are the possible ways to close that account and get my money back?

Thank you
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  #2  
Old 07.07.2016, 14:01
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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Now, may I ask, what are the possible ways to close that account and get my money back?
Simply request the complete payout now - the money can be retrieved any time.

This will have tax consequences. Ask your service supplier for advice.
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Old 07.07.2016, 14:20
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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Simply request the complete payout now - the money can be retrieved any time.

This will have tax consequences. Ask your service supplier for advice.
Has there been a change of rules recently?
They have told me multiple times that you can'st simply close your account unless "you are leaving Switzerland", "Buying a property", or "Creating your own company".

So you say I can just walk in UBS and say I want my money back?
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Old 07.07.2016, 14:39
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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Has there been a change of rules recently?
No. https://www.vorsorge-3a.ch/vorsorge-...her-bezug.html has always been in place (the link goes to a German language site, sorry)

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They have told me multiple times that you can'st simply close your account unless "you are leaving Switzerland", "Buying a property", or "Creating your own company".
That applies to the second pillar.

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So you say I can just walk in UBS and say I want my money back?
Yes. And I said: Tax consequences.

Last edited by daffy99; 07.07.2016 at 14:40. Reason: Add URL
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Old 07.07.2016, 14:43
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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Yes. And I said: Tax consequences.
But this won't be the case if the OP never claimed any tax benefit from having the cash in the 3rd pillar in the first place?

OP, unless you really need the money I'd just keep it in there. It's simple to fill out the tax declaration on a B permit.
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Old 07.07.2016, 15:42
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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But this won't be the case if the OP never claimed any tax benefit from having the cash in the 3rd pillar in the first place?
Who would be so unbelievably stupid to pay into the third pillar and then not claim when filing for income tax?

(And before anyone asks - yes, third pillar has tax effect from almost the first franc, definitely for B and C permits, whoever has some other permit, please ask your tax consultant)

Your advice

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unless you really need the money I'd just keep it in there.
also poses a challenge. Switzerland has rather low income tax rates and _any_ cashing out of third pillar funds has tax effects, at any time (before pension age, or after) and in any location (Switzerland, any other country).

Depending on how the new country of residence taxes the third pillar funds, and depending on double taxation treaty with Switzerland, the tax rate in the new country (at any given time) might be higher than the tax rate in Switzerland on early closing of the third pillar account.

Specific answers on all of this can only be given by a highly qualified, fully up-to-date tax advisor competent in both Swiss (tax) law and in the law of the new country of residence.

TL;DR: It might be tax-optimal to close the third pillar account(s) upon leaving Switzerland.
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Old 07.07.2016, 16:23
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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But this won't be the case if the OP never claimed any tax benefit from having the cash in the 3rd pillar in the first place?

OP, unless you really need the money I'd just keep it in there. It's simple to fill out the tax declaration on a B permit.
I deposited this money in 2011. They said you can only use tax benefits in 2011, which I had already missed. Would I have got anything, if I had filled tax return after that as well?

And again, are you guys sure I can get it back (It's Pillar 3a)?If yes, they have basically lied to me all the time.
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Old 07.07.2016, 16:39
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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Simply request the complete payout now - the money can be retrieved any time.

This will have tax consequences. Ask your service supplier for advice.
Pillar 3a can't be withdrawn unless you are leaving the country or want to put it against a mortgage... at least not in the Postfinance account last time I checked.
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Old 07.07.2016, 16:51
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

Pillar 3a cannot be closed unless you are leaving Switzerland. The money remains in a locked account and only given when you provide proof that you are leaving.
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Old 07.07.2016, 17:11
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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I deposited this money in 2011. They said you can only use tax benefits in 2011, which I had already missed.
Either my English is off, or your logic is off

If you deposit the money in the calendar year 2011, then you will declare it for the calendar/tax year 2011. Logically speaking, the moment you deposited, tax year 2011 was still in progress.

If you deposited and then neglected to file a tax statement for 2011 or failed to list the depositing ... oh dear.

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Would I have got anything, if I had filled tax return after that as well?
No idea. Ask a trustworthy source.

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And again, are you guys sure I can get it back (It's Pillar 3a)?If yes, they have basically lied to me all the time.
Yes. YES. YEEEEEEEEEEES.

EDIT: And given the fact you may have never _claimed_ any tax benefits, I am not even sure to what extent the amount would be taxed on retrieval. Essentially everybody pays up to the maximum tax-effective amount (and not a single Rappen more) into such an account and claims the benefits exactly for that year. Whatever you did, it probably was not the most normal thing to do. Find a trustworthy source to have this sorted out in person.

Last edited by daffy99; 07.07.2016 at 17:17. Reason: Clarify + EDIT
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Old 07.07.2016, 17:15
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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But this won't be the case if the OP never claimed any tax benefit from having the cash in the 3rd pillar in the first place?

OP, unless you really need the money I'd just keep it in there. It's simple to fill out the tax declaration on a B permit.
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Either my English is off, or your logic is off

If you depost the money in the year 2011, then you will declare it for the tax year 2011. Logically speaking, the moment you deposited, tax year 2011 was still in progress.



No idea. Ask a trustworthy source.



Yes. YES. YEEEEEEEEEEES.

You are right. It's my financial knowledge that was totally off at the time.
I created the account in 2011. I have B permit so I am taxed at source (Impot a la source) and no tax return filed normally. That's why I missed it and didn't realise until late 2012 that I had needed to explicitly file a return.

So I will go for a serious talk with UBS.
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Old 07.07.2016, 17:19
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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But this won't be the case if the OP never claimed any tax benefit from having the cash in the 3rd pillar in the first place?
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Who would be so unbelievably stupid to pay into the third pillar and then not claim when filing for income tax?
This -->

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I even couldn't use the tax benefit that year because they didn't tell me I have to fill a tax form.
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Old 07.07.2016, 17:22
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

For the record - me was an idiot, and I should have read the link I posted https://www.vorsorge-3a.ch/vorsorge-...ger-bezug.html more closely (or remembered more about it).

Yes, there are conditions to this, and I do apologize for spreading misleading information.
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Old 07.07.2016, 17:22
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Re: Any way to get 3rd Pillar back?

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For the record - me was an idiot, and I should have read the link I posted https://www.vorsorge-3a.ch/vorsorge-...ger-bezug.html more closely (or remembered more about it).

Yes, there are conditions to this, and I do apologize for spreading misleading information.
This is plain... oops.
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