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Old 14.08.2016, 20:31
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Am I being charged too much tax?

I am in the Geneva canton. I've been given a 2014 tax bill of going on for 4K on an income of 35.6K. I work for myself (largely online in Australia and paid in Australian dollars) and I did not put in a return - on the cantonal advice of 2011, which was that they were happy for me to pay tax in Australia, not here. But they have changed their minds and backdated it to 2014. The information they have for me is Australian: amount of income and tax paid. I suppose from this they came up with a taxable amount of 35.6K. I only submit receipts to prove that I pay tax in Australia, again, as per their advice as to what I should do.

They started off with 36,701 and gave me a déduction pour frais professionels ICC of 1,101. I don't really understand what that is, but it is much less than the deductions I claim in lodging my return in Australia, where I have, for example, been claiming costs of a home office. Should I be able to claim that sort of thing here too?


I went to a tax calculator here:

and it suggests:

Deductions
Salary 35,000.00 CHF
Direct Federal Tax- 358.00 CHF
Communal tax- 248.60 CHF
Cantonal tax- 811.37 CHF
Total Tax- 1,417.98 CHF

In contrast to that, the Canton has given me a bill detailed thus:

Imposable 35,600 revenu
Au taux de 35,600
Barème d'imposition art. 41, alinéa 1 LIPP


Impots Cantonaux

Impôt de base sur le revenu 1908.80
Centimes additionels sur le revenu 906.70
Réduction de 12% -337.85
Aide à domicile sur le revenu 19.10

Impots Cantonaux
Part privilégiée sur revenu (Genève) 234.5
Centimes additionels sur le revenu 634.00

Autres Impots et taxes

Tax personelle 25.00

Frais, Amend, Emoluments 20.00

Intérêts compensatoires négatifs au 13.04.16 105.20*

Total bill CHF 3490.35

*Is that serious: they are charging me interest???

I'm going to drop in on them tomorrow and ask how the figures are derived, but maybe somebody might have tips for how to deal with it and also an opinion as to whether the figures the canton gives are in the ball park, or the ones that the tax calculator gives...I guess I wasn't really expecting that tax here would be substantially more than I'm paying in Australia.

Finally, I'm curious as to why there are two 'Centimes additionels sur le revenu' - not a very informative description!
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  #2  
Old 15.08.2016, 05:24
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

About 3400 is what this calculator suggests at 35k _taxable_ income. It doesn't let you enter taxable income directly because it applies some standard deductions on top of it, but you can play with numbers to get there.
http://www.estv2.admin.ch/e/dienstle...er/2014/ge.php

So tax office calculation sounds about right.

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I went to a tax calculator [URL="http://neuvoo.ch/tax-calculator/Geneva,Gen%C3%A8ve-96000?salary=35000&region=Geneva&city=Gen%C3%A8ve"]
It says it's assuming a lot of things for simplification, like maybe that you're married - makes a huge difference, or that you're entering gross income before deductions instead of taxable income. I wouldn't trust it.
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Old 15.08.2016, 09:24
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

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It says it's assuming a lot of things for simplification, like maybe that you're married - makes a huge difference, or that you're entering gross income before deductions instead of taxable income. I wouldn't trust it.
Exactly.

Use these instead, they're official. Make sure to pick the relevant year, and mind that they're not 100% accurate.
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Old 15.08.2016, 10:01
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

Are you saying that you already declared and paid tax in Australia ?

If so, you need to sort this out, because you should not be double-taxed.

I would suggest paying the tax office (state one, not your local Gemeinde) and asking them what you should do.

Overall, I would expect the income tax to be somewhere around 12-15%, so the amount sounds fairly close. Assuming unmarried and no kids.

Had you ever done a tax return prior to 2014 ?

It may be that you have other entitlements to deductions etc, but if you don't put in a tax return you can't claim them.

If it's any consolation, we just got our 2014 tax return documents as well... it takes them a long time to process everything...
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Old 15.08.2016, 10:33
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

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Are you saying that you already declared and paid tax in Australia ?

If so, you need to sort this out, because you should not be double-taxed.
That's exactly what has happened. I've spent a couple of months on this already and the ATO agreed that I should be taxed in Switzerland for my own generated income (ie interest and dividends etc will still be taxed in Australia) and having sorted that part out, I am now on step two of the Swiss side. It is all rather complicated and slow!

As far as double tax goes, I believe I should get a credit here on the tax I do pay in Australia (not sure what that figure is yet).
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Old 15.08.2016, 10:35
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

Thanks for the links to the official calculators - especially the one in English
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Old 25.08.2016, 13:38
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

Is it normal to be substracted 1830 CHF as tax from my salary ?
780 CHF (taxes) +1050 CHF (15% from 7000)
Working permit B, EU, brut salary - 7000 CHF/month, 100%, Fribourg, female

HR already did some mistakes in calculations for the 1st month...and for the 2nd I am shocked about this tax.

I cannot find a complete online calculator tool for my salary.

Pelase help.
Thank you!
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Old 25.08.2016, 13:56
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

@ Nadiusha Nadiusha

You are a little off topic as you're talking about deduction from your salary at payroll (but you gave very little information, so I am guessing a bit!) ...

Deductions: I suggest you check what all those should be line by line, in the German part the abbreviations are (for example) AHV BVG for your social security and pension contributions. 15% sounds fine, in principle, for deductions on top of tax. remember the employer will contribute (AT LEAST) the same amount o all these things themselves. You might be pleasantly surprised by how much your pension pot is growing compared to other countries.

tax: Look at Comparis.ch for a basic tax calculator that should answer tax question at a high level...

OR... use the search feature on these forums.
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:02
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

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Is it normal to be substracted 1830 CHF as tax from my salary ?
780 CHF (taxes) +1050 CHF (15% from 7000)
Working permit B, EU, brut salary - 7000 CHF/month, 100%, Fribourg, female
According to comparis.ch, tax at source for single, without church tax at 7k income per month in FR should be about 1000 Fr. So you're either being overcharged or there's something you forgot to tell us. There are other deductions besides tax at source that employer can make.
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:03
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

So:
"Social charges":
Cotisation AVS 5.1250 % -358.75

Cotisation AC 1.1000 % -77.00

Cotisation AANP secteur A1 0.9470 % -66.30

5051 Cotisation IJM femmes 0.6750 % -47.25

5054 Cotisation LPP fixe 1.0000 -232.25
-----------------------------
-781.55

-1050 (15% from 7000 CHF)
----------------------------------
- 1831.455 CHF ( 26%)

is normal ?
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:06
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

Half of that is not taxes, but mandatory social insurances and yes, it's normal
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:09
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

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According to comparis.ch, tax at source for single, without church tax at 7k income per month in FR should be about 1000 Fr. So you're either being overcharged or there's something you forgot to tell us. There are other deductions besides tax at source that employer can make.
I am maried, no kids, no church tax, no other income. My salary is 7000 and I receive in account 5168.55 CHF. I don't have other things to mention.
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:10
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

If anything, somewhat on the low side.

Tom
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:11
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

1050 sounds like about the right amount of tax at source. The rest are social security deductions, not tax. 5.125% AVS is correct, not sure about the rest with my level of French.
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:18
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

Sorry for the "tax" naming... it's charged from the initial amount of salary...so I'm loosing those money anyway..

I'll try to accept theese taxes/deductions

Thank you all for your replies!
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:26
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

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These deductions are not tax, they are insurances which are paid and deducted from the salary,
Cotisation AVS 5.1250 % -358.75
Cotisation AC 1.1000 % -77.00
Cotisation AANP secteur A1 0.9470 % -66.30
5051 Cotisation IJM femmes 0.6750 % -47.25
5054 Cotisation LPP fixe 1.0000 -232.25
____________________________________
Total salary per month CHF 8'000
Less the total deductions 780.80
Taxable salary is 7219.20_____________________________________
Annual salary 84'000
Annual deductions 9360
Annual taxable salary 74'640
_____________________________________




My salary is 7000 CHF/month, 91000/year,
not 8000
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:30
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

These deductions are not tax, they are insurances which are paid and deducted from the salary,
Cotisation AVS 5.1250 % -358.75
Cotisation AC 1.1000 % -77.00
Cotisation AANP secteur A1 0.9470 % -66.30
5051 Cotisation IJM femmes 0.6750 % -47.25
5054 Cotisation LPP fixe 1.0000 -232.25
____________________________________
Total salary per month CHF 8'000
Less the total deductions 780.80
Taxable salary is about ~ 7219.20
Annual salary 84'000Annual pension contributions 2'787
_____________________________________

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/d/dienstle...er/2015/fr.php

Steuerberechnung für den Kanton Freiburg 2015 (Einjährige Postnumerandobesteuerung)

Anmerkung: Diese Berechnung ist allgemeiner Art. Für das Ergebnis wird nicht gehaftet,
die Zahlen sind unverbindlich.


Annahme: Unselbständig erwerbende Person mit eigenem Haushalt
Zivilstand: AlleinstehendAnzahl Kinder 0BruttoeinkommenBundKanton-

Erstverdienereinkommen brutto
8400084000-
Zweitverdienereinkommen brutto
00-
Vermögensertrag
00- übriges
Einkommen
00
Gesamteinkommen
8400084000
Abzüge- AHV-, IV-, EO-Beiträge43264326-
ALV-Beiträge
924924-
NBU-Beiträge
705705-
Pensionskassenbeiträge
27872787-
Versicherungsabzug
17004380-
Säule 3a
00-
Berufsauslagen (Pauschalabzug)
22572257-
Schuldzinsen
00-
Unterhaltskosten für Liegenschaften
00- Zweitverdienerabzug00-
Kinderabzug
00- Persönlicher Abzug00-
übrige Abzüge
00
Abzug für bescheidene Einkommen
00
Abzüge insgesamt
1269915379
Steuerbares Einkommen
7130068600
Steuerbelastung
Direkte Bundessteuer in Franken1060
Einfache Steuer6491.34-
Kantonssteuer in Franken
16491-
Gemeindesteuer in Franken (Fribourg)
0.8165296-
Kirchensteuer in Franken
00
Steuerbelastung insgesamt
12847

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a 'C' permit your annual tax would be 12'847
_______________________________________

I think you should take your salary slip to the tax office and ask for their advice!
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:39
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

Total salary per month CHF 7'000
Less the total deductions 780.80
Taxable salary is about ~ 7219.20
Annual salary 91'000
Annual pension contributions 2'787
_____________________________________

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/d/dienstle...er/2015/fr.php


Steuerberechnung für den Kanton Freiburg 2015 (Einjährige Postnumerandobesteuerung)

Anmerkung: Diese Berechnung ist allgemeiner Art. Für das Ergebnis wird nicht gehaftet,
die Zahlen sind unverbindlich.


Annahme: Unselbständig erwerbende Person mit eigenem HaushaltZivilstand: AlleinstehendAnzahl Kinder 0BruttoeinkommenBundKanton- Erstverdienereinkommen brutto9100091000- Zweitverdienereinkommen brutto00- Vermögensertrag00- übriges Einkommen00Gesamteinkommen9100091000Abzüge- AHV-, IV-, EO-Beiträge46864686- ALV-Beiträge10001000- NBU-Beiträge764764- Pensionskassenbeiträge27872787- Versicherungsabzug17004380- Säule 3a00- Berufsauslagen (Pauschalabzug)24522452- Schuldzinsen00- Unterhaltskosten für Liegenschaften00- Zweitverdienerabzug00- Kinderabzug00- Persönlicher Abzug00- übrige Abzüge00Abzug für bescheidene Einkommen00Abzüge insgesamt1338916069Steuerbares Einkommen7760074900SteuerbelastungDirekte Bundessteuer in Franken1398Einfache Steuer7394.2- Kantonssteuer in Franken17394- Gemeindesteuer in Franken (Fribourg)0.8166033- Kirchensteuer in Franken00Steuerbelastung insgesamt14825
Single person, no children, no church tax, no savings,
Monthly tax due on a 'C' permit would be CHF 1235.40 per month
__________________________________________________ _________

I think you should take your salary slip(s) and visit your tax office,
The company deduct the taxes and pay them for you.
Nobody checks if the company figures are correct!
(My daughter paid no taxes for 5 years! )
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:44
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

Sorry, my editor function has stopped working. It looks like you are winning on a tax bill of only CHF 1'050 per month!
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Old 25.08.2016, 14:53
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Re: Am I being charged too much tax?

I miss the days of Quellensteuer and also paying tax separately.
Had to pay tax ourselves for the first time for the year 2015 and getting these massive bills is not pleasant.

I am looking into it and it appears at first that we have paid more tax as a married couple, taxed together, than if we had remained single and on Quellensteuer.

Total taxable income, after AHV deductions etc: 202,902.95
Staats and Gemeindesteuer: 23,191.50
Bundessteuer: 11,718.00
Total tax: 34,909.50

I think there must be a mistake in there.
I am checking it out with our tax lady as this seems excessive to me.

In 2014, my personal taxable income was 83,292, Quellensteuer on that was 7,920.00. Much more manageable.

Wish you could opt out of this system and be taxed as an individual.
As a couple we keep our finances totally separate and to go through this tax palaver is rather frustrating for us when we don't share our finances in other ways.

I find it a rather outdated system from when men worked and women stayed in the home.
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