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  #221  
Old 14.10.2016, 11:37
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Non-binding referendum, how many supposedly educated people understand that?
I think they did understand that, it's really not an issue to anyone except the remain voters with brown underpants.
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  #222  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:04
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Thank goodness for that, thank you Marton.

What are you here for? How many of your posts are just here to attack people like Marton.

What amazes me is just how many people spend so much time on EF when they supposedly are in the middle of their work day, on the average 120k expat salary.
Because some common sense is needed to counterbalance the bliss ninnies such as yourself. And besides, I don't make many forum posts during the day, just when I get a few minutes respite to take my mind off of work. Like many others.

And 'attack marton'? Don't make me laugh, the guy is probably one of the most aggressive and mind-numbingly relentless posters on the forum, it's water off a ducks back to him and he likely doesn't give a crap about my opinion of him any more than I do about his of me.
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  #223  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:16
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Non-binding referendum, how many supposedly educated people understand that?
As a educated Brit, who voted.

Eh so whats the point? Let's make 33,577,342 people vote to have a warm fuzzy feeling? Perhaps we should have gone for a pub poll? Best of 3? Rock, Paper, Scissors?

It is very rare "direct democracy" has been carried out UK wide and I like it give me more.

The British people spoke, the government and MP's/tosspots need to accept that regardless of how it should be done. I don't care if it's an act of parliament that achieves this or not. Same result.

Implement Article 50 and move on.

It's a shame when people vote the wrong way. Democracy who'd have it?
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  #224  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:17
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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compared to a completely different country nice try
You still don't get it, do you? Or maybe you suffer from the same delusional arrogance that leads Leavers to believe that the Empire will be resurrected once Great Britain casts off the shackles of the EU. Can the UK not learn from the successes of other countries? My point was that compulsory voting results in a voter turnout in excess of 91% (>95% in some instances) in Australia, easily reproducible in other countries such as the UK, which in turn produces a more democratic result. How you can find a way to deny that is beyond me. Perhaps the same way that you blindly charge on out of the EU, bellowing "Rule Britannia" at the top of your lungs.

Anyway, to me this is nothing more than an academically interesting argument, a study in social psychology. Brexit would have minimal effect on me. For those whose lives are going to be irretrievably screwed up, I really feel sorry. Only time will tell whether that's the case, but as I said, it's looking more and more likely that anyone in Britain who doesn't have the investment resources and know-how to benefit from a weak pound sterling is going to suffer badly over the short-to-medium-term, at least.
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Old 14.10.2016, 12:20
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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As a educated Brit, who voted.
Maybe not that educated.
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  #226  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:24
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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You still don't get it, do you? Or maybe you suffer from the same delusional arrogance that leads Leavers to believe that the Empire will be resurrected once Great Britain casts off the shackles of the EU. Can the UK not learn from the successes of other countries? My point was that compulsory voting results in a voter turnout in excess of 91% (>95% in some instances) in Australia, easily reproducible in other countries such as the UK, which in turn produces a more democratic result. How you can find a way to deny that is beyond me. Perhaps the same way that you blindly charge on out of the EU, bellowing "Rule Britannia" at the top of your lungs.

Anyway, to me this is nothing more than an academically interesting argument, a study in social psychology. Brexit would have minimal effect on me. For those whose lives are going to be irretrievably screwed up, I really feel sorry. Only time will tell whether that's the case, but as I said, it's looking more and more likely that anyone in Britain who doesn't have the investment resources and know-how to benefit from a weak pound sterling is going to suffer badly over the short-to-medium-term, at least.
This wouldn't change the result in this case it would strengthen it, most non-voters are the working classes in the UK fed up with the political system not working for them so they don't vote. Which is stupid obviously.

"Class was a key dividing line in the EU referendum" <Torygraph Link>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ucated-old-an/
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  #227  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:29
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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This wouldn't change the result in this case it would strengthen it, most non-voters are the working classes in the UK fed up with the political system not working for them so they don't vote. Which is stupid obviously.

"Class was a key dividing line in the EU referendum" <Torygraph Link>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ucated-old-an/
It's impossible to guess how those who didn't vote would have voted. But if you believe they would have voted Leave, the Leavers should welcome a confirmatory referendum, preferably with compulsory voting, surely?

What are they afraid of? That the people have changed their mind? If they have, then that's the direction the country should take now!
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  #228  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:37
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

Just a reminder that Brexit isn't about excluding all those unsavoury foreigners and breaking free of Eurotechnocracy while continuing to reap the benefits of trade with Europe.
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  #229  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:38
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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You still don't get it, do you? Or maybe you suffer from the same delusional arrogance that leads Leavers to believe that the Empire will be resurrected once Great Britain casts off the shackles of the EU. Can the UK not learn from the successes of other countries? My point was that compulsory voting results in a voter turnout in excess of 91% (>95% in some instances) in Australia, easily reproducible in other countries such as the UK, which in turn produces a more democratic result. How you can find a way to deny that is beyond me. Perhaps the same way that you blindly charge on out of the EU, bellowing "Rule Britannia" at the top of your lungs.

Anyway, to me this is nothing more than an academically interesting argument, a study in social psychology. Brexit would have minimal effect on me. For those whose lives are going to be irretrievably screwed up, I really feel sorry. Only time will tell whether that's the case, but as I said, it's looking more and more likely that anyone in Britain who doesn't have the investment resources and know-how to benefit from a weak pound sterling is going to suffer badly over the short-to-medium-term, at least.
Okay I'll have a go at this.

New empire? - Nope, no illusions here
Rule Britannia - Never I'm a republican, I would break up Buckingham Palace and turn it into drop in centre for the homeless of London.
Screw up? - You just can't tell.
Britain who doesn't have the investment resources? - Not true, we have them they're just tied up in casino banking jacking up house prices and lending out sub-prime loans.

Britain has a huge trade deficit, buying shite we just don't need.

We have an over reliance on a corrupt and fraudulent banking system that has not paid any real tax for years, a huge housing bubble and a company/business "friendly environment" that allows the 1% to get away with tax evasion and paying poverty wages. There is no accountability for this scum.

It's time for the UK to take the finger out of it's arse and get back to work producing and manufacturing which has now become quite interesting to the rest of the world as UK goods are suddenly 10% odd cheaper. Making good investment opportunities for outside investment. (It becomes cheap to invest) These manufacturing companies pay tax too in the UK and provide good well paid long term jobs = win/win/win
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  #230  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:38
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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This wouldn't change the result in this case it would strengthen it, most non-voters are the working classes in the UK fed up with the political system not working for them so they don't vote. Which is stupid obviously.

"Class was a key dividing line in the EU referendum" <Torygraph Link>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ucated-old-an/
BTW non-voters were also disproportionately young who, according to polls, were strongly remain.
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  #231  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:39
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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You still don't get it, do you? Or maybe you suffer from the same delusional arrogance that leads Leavers to believe that the Empire will be resurrected once Great Britain casts off the shackles of the EU. Can the UK not learn from the successes of other countries? My point was that compulsory voting results in a voter turnout in excess of 91% (>95% in some instances) in Australia, easily reproducible in other countries such as the UK, which in turn produces a more democratic result. How you can find a way to deny that is beyond me. Perhaps the same way that you blindly charge on out of the EU, bellowing "Rule Britannia" at the top of your lungs.

Anyway, to me this is nothing more than an academically interesting argument, a study in social psychology. Brexit would have minimal effect on me. For those whose lives are going to be irretrievably screwed up, I really feel sorry. Only time will tell whether that's the case, but as I said, it's looking more and more likely that anyone in Britain who doesn't have the investment resources and know-how to benefit from a weak pound sterling is going to suffer badly over the short-to-medium-term, at least.
are you trying to do a trump by desperately bringing in irrelevant topics and attacking wildly when you are losing the argument?

your argument is wrong on so many levels:

- high can be measured relatively to other votes in the same country. on this measure it is undoubtedly high
- you can measure on an absolute scale. here 70+/100 is also high
- you can pick and choose versus different countries. australia is one, you could have picked others e.g. switzerland which have closer to 40% turnout rate and concluded UK is super-high
- as for considering it more democratic to force people to vote who currently choose not to vote. yeah, right. it makes no difference if someone abstains on the ballot paper or 'abstains' but not voting at all
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  #232  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:42
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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It's impossible to guess how those who didn't vote would have voted. But if you believe they would have voted Leave, the Leavers should welcome a confirmatory referendum, preferably with compulsory voting, surely?

What are they afraid of? That the people have changed their mind? If they have, then that's the direction the country should take now!
it might have made sense to have a vote to ratify the final deal had the EU agreed to negotiate before the triggering of article 50.

but since they didn't, it makes no sense to do so, as once it is triggered, the option of staying in the EU disappears.
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  #233  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:49
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

Another EU parasite on the taxpayers payroll.

Lets see how many German cars do without 6bn worth of refined petrol.

There cannot be a "hard exit" without "any agreement" as it will hurt the EU as much as the UK, of not more in some cases. The Germans know this.

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visual...show/all/2014/

German imports from the UK below.

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visual...gbr/show/2014/
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  #234  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:50
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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It's time for the UK to take the finger out of it's arse and get back to work producing and manufacturing which has now become quite interesting to the rest of the world as UK goods are suddenly 10% odd cheaper. Making good investment opportunities for outside investment. (It becomes cheap to invest) These manufacturing companies pay tax too in the UK and provide good well paid long term jobs = win/win/win
Lets run through these...:
10% cheaper? Short-term only as inflation will for certain re-close the gap pronto (and the increased cost of raw materials even faster). Medium term FX/Inflation is a zero sum game except maybe in a few special cases like Switzerland
Manufacturing for the rest of the world? They certainly are not going to oust China and the rest of Asia as the home of cheap labour, although certain tories would line to turn the UK into a China. Means you're left with premium products for which half the market is still Europe. To which they will in future have trouble exporting as they will not be in the single market. BTW, although import duties will have an impact, it is as much the non-tarif barriers that will hurt in future
Investment opportunities? Much inward investment in recent years has had two triggers. Access to the single market and English language. Take away access to the single market and the language advantage is no longer enough to compensate for much lower costs in Eastern Europe.
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  #235  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:52
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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BTW non-voters were also disproportionately young who, according to polls, were strongly remain.
Try asking the jobless young of Merthyr Tydfil which way they would vote, I guess you know the answer.
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  #236  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:54
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Lets run through these...:
10% cheaper? Short-term only as inflation will for certain re-close the gap pronto (and the increased cost of raw materials even faster). Medium term FX/Inflation is a zero sum game except maybe in a few special cases like Switzerland
Manufacturing for the rest of the world? They certainly are not going to oust China and the rest of Asia as the home of cheap labour, although certain tories would line to turn the UK into a China. Means you're left with premium products for which half the market is still Europe. To which they will in future have trouble exporting as they will not be in the single market. BTW, although import duties will have an impact, it is as much the non-tarif barriers that will hurt in future
Investment opportunities? Much inward investment in recent years has had two triggers. Access to the single market and English language. Take away access to the single market and the language advantage is no longer enough to compensate for much lower costs in Eastern Europe.
My prediction is the Euro tanking too in the next five years, so we'll reassess then. We don't need a China we need a Switzerland/Germany, high tech specialised industries.
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Old 14.10.2016, 12:57
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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There cannot be a "hard exit" without "any agreement" as it will hurt the EU as much as the UK, of not more in some cases. The Germans know this.
not according to tusk. he says it's either hard brexit, or no brexit.
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  #238  
Old 14.10.2016, 13:17
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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are you trying to do a trump by desperately bringing in irrelevant topics and attacking wildly when you are losing the argument?

your argument is wrong on so many levels:

- high can be measured relatively to other votes in the same country. on this measure it is undoubtedly high
- you can measure on an absolute scale. here 70+/100 is also high
- you can pick and choose versus different countries. australia is one, you could have picked others e.g. switzerland which have closer to 40% turnout rate and concluded UK is super-high
- as for considering it more democratic to force people to vote who currently choose not to vote. yeah, right. it makes no difference if someone abstains on the ballot paper or 'abstains' but not voting at all
You still don't get it. Compulsory voting is the purest form of democracy. Do you want a democratic result or the result generated by the side that managed to mobilise more voters? 72% is a poor turnout compared to 91+%, an achievable target in the UK. Again, how can you rationally deny that? Switzerland doesn't have compulsory voting, the proposal I am suggesting, so how is its voter turnout relevant? You may as well quote North Korea's statistics.

The rate of spoiled ballots in Australia runs from 15%. In effect, along with the 59% of registered voters who don't vote despite the legal requirement to do so, this represents the abstention rate. Taking rough averages, 0.03*0.93 + 0.07 = 10% of registered voters who abstain. The rate of spoiled ballots in the UK is much lower, at less than 1%; let's be generous and call it zero, leaving 28% of registered voters abstaining or otherwise disenfranchised. Which sounds more democratic to you, 10% or 28% not being counted?

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it might have made sense to have a vote to ratify the final deal had the EU agreed to negotiate before the triggering of article 50.

but since they didn't, it makes no sense to do so, as once it is triggered, the option of staying in the EU disappears.
Exactly. I agree. That's why it makes perfect sense to hold a confirmatory (or otherwise) referendum before Article 50 is triggered. There is no timetable for triggering Article 50 except for the arbitrary one announced by Theresa May.
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Old 14.10.2016, 13:22
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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My prediction is the Euro tanking too in the next five years, so we'll reassess then. We don't need a China we need a Switzerland/Germany, high tech specialised industries.
My prediction is no Euro in the next five years. That doesn't change the dire situation that the UK is getting itself into, though (quite apart from the possibility that the "U" of "UK" may not be there in five years, either).
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Old 14.10.2016, 13:23
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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The rules were VERY clear from the start, one referendum, one question, in or out, yes or no
It takes lots of fair info to come to a well-founded decision that affects the next 1-2-3 generations. Do you think there was sufficient fair info available? And what about the 350mln-a-week lie, do you think that is Ok behavior?
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