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  #901  
Old 12.11.2014, 19:15
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Re: Gold Buying

Interesting commentary by Casey Research:

"Paper gold and its effect on the gold price"

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/pap...the-gold-price
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  #902  
Old 14.11.2014, 16:25
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Re: Gold Buying

What does Russia and their mates know?

From the Guardian here.

Quote "Over the past decade, Russia’s central bank has been the most active gold buyer in the sector.

Between July-September 2014 central banks added 92.8 tonnes of gold to their reserves - and 59% of net purchases in this period were made by Russia. Russia was followed by Kazakhstan, which added 28 tonnes to its reserves, and Azerbaijan bought a further seven tonnes. Both Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan are members of the Commonwealth of Independent States."

I also attach a graph of current gold holdings!
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  #903  
Old 14.11.2014, 21:45
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Re: Gold Buying

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Goldreserven
(interesting read, BTW, though not that much news)

1536 of those are in the US...

Somebody should make a chart that lists how much gold the various nations have on their own territory.

I think the Gold-Referendum will fail, by something like 60/40.
The current system ("kicking the can down the road") will have to go on for as long as it takes. Nobody knows what comes after it - but politicians are IMO scared even thinking about it.
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  #904  
Old 14.11.2014, 22:21
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Re: Gold Buying

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Somebody should make a chart that lists how much gold the various nations have on their own territory.
that would be very interesting. i guess most would be in the US and the UK.
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  #905  
Old 15.11.2014, 07:36
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Re: Gold Buying

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Also that the GOFO rates were at an extreme negative value yesterday.
http://www.lbma.org.uk/pricing-and-statistics
(Click 'Table' tab and then hit the 'Price for' drop-down menu)
Friday's GOFO rates at -0.21750 for 1 month were at an even more extreme negative value.
These rates have NEVER been at such values ever and they suggest that there are serious problems with supplying physical gold.

Is this something to do with tomorrow's G20 in Auzzie where a decision most probably will be made to redefine "large bank deposits" at just above the level of toilet paper?

Russell Napier Declares November 16, 2014 The Day Money Dies
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  #906  
Old 15.11.2014, 18:31
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Re: Gold Buying

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Friday's GOFO rates at -0.21750 for 1 month were at an even more extreme negative value.
These rates have NEVER been at such values ever and they suggest that there are serious problems with supplying physical gold.

Is this something to do with tomorrow's G20 in Auzzie where a decision most probably will be made to redefine "large bank deposits" at just above the level of toilet paper?

Russell Napier Declares November 16, 2014 The Day Money Dies
Yes. What we require now is a new financial product modelled on the Physical Gold ETF in which units are traded on a stock exchange, each unit being backed up by a physical asset, in this case Gold in a bank vault.

However, this new product would be say called a Cash ETF. In the bank vault would be envelopes containing a fixed amount of cash in low denomination notes and each ETF Unit would represent one envelope. Low denomination notes are preferable because these are less likely to be rendered invalid in a crisis and the bank maintaining the vault would update the envelopes from time to time to ensure that notes were of the newest series. Each Cash ETF would be, on demand, payable. As with certain Gold ETFs, the holder of the cash ETF would have the right to a physical delivery, in this case of the envelope containing the wad of cash.

In times of more or less zero interest rates (like now), the cash ETFs would trade at a fraction under the nominal value. In times of crisis, however, like for instance a major banking system failure, these would rise rapidly because the supply would be limited and, anyway, potential sellers would have doubts about any payment they would get in return.

However, important for the holder is probably not the potential rise in value so much as the security of having available usable cash which, unlike a normal bank account, would not be subject to "bailing in" (confiscation).

What is the advantage of this? It is the same as with the Gold ETF, it is equally possible for someone to actually buy and sell physical gold bars, and organise secure storage him or herself, but that is a lot of hassle, isn't it ?
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  #907  
Old 15.11.2014, 18:43
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Re: Gold Buying

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Yes. What we require now is a new financial product modelled on the Physical Gold ETF in which units are traded on a stock exchange, each unit being backed up by a physical asset, in this case Gold in a bank vault.

However, this new product would be say called a Cash ETF. In the bank vault would be envelopes containing a fixed amount of cash in low denomination notes and each ETF Unit would represent one envelope. Low denomination notes are preferable because these are less likely to be rendered invalid in a crisis and the bank maintaining the vault would update the envelopes from time to time to ensure that notes were of the newest series. Each Cash ETF would be, on demand, payable. As with certain Gold ETFs, the holder of the cash ETF would have the right to a physical delivery, in this case of the envelope containing the wad of cash.

In times of more or less zero interest rates (like now), the cash ETFs would trade at a fraction under the nominal value. In times of crisis, however, like for instance a major banking system failure, these would rise rapidly because the supply would be limited and, anyway, potential sellers would have doubts about any payment they would get in return.

However, important for the holder is probably not the potential rise in value so much as the security of having available usable cash which, unlike a normal bank account, would not be subject to "bailing in" (confiscation).

What is the advantage of this? It is the same as with the Gold ETF, it is equally possible for someone to actually buy and sell physical gold bars, and organise secure storage him or herself, but that is a lot of hassle, isn't it ?
This already exists: it is called your mattress.
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  #908  
Old 26.11.2014, 12:07
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Re: Gold Buying

Gold price shot up to $1,467/oz for a short time last night; I guessed somebody hit the wrong keyboard button?
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  #909  
Old 26.11.2014, 13:46
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Re: Gold Buying

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Gold price shot up to $1,467/oz for a short time last night; I guessed somebody hit the wrong keyboard button?
I doubt any was traded at that price, just an offer when the Markets are closed.
I have seen the bid price for BID (Sotherby's) go from roughly $43 to $100,000 a share, I was for a short period of time worth over $40,000,000
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  #910  
Old 27.11.2014, 18:14
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Re: Gold Buying

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What does Russia and their mates know?

From the Guardian
Most probably this chart is useful for showing recent changes, i.e. gold accumulated in the last few years.

But IMO the data for those countries that have held gold or have been accumulating gold for much longer periods is completely inaccurate. And for good reason since many countries, whether right or wrong, see these data as part of their state secrets. The countries I'm thinking of are the USA, Russia, China and, in addition, (I will lump them together), the Middle East. Many consider the 8000 odd tons claimed by the US as highly suspect, since they have for decades refused to allow an audit.

Also China almost certainly has significantly more than the 1000 odd tons attributed to that country's official holdings. Alasdair Macleod recently guesstimated a figure of 25,000 to 30,000 tons which seems much more likely. As he points out the Chinese state has been interested in accumulation gold from the 1980s onwards when the West was hell bent on selling their's.

Similarly Russia could easily have much more gold that the Guardian figure of 1150 odd tons. One source, Jim Willie puts it as high as 20,000 tons.

Alasdair Macleod's chart of possible changes in gold holdings in the 1980s to 2002.



Just some thoughts of mine!
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Old 27.11.2014, 19:16
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Re: Gold Buying

Also bear in mind that buying gold is buying a put against the idiocy of the political cycle.
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  #912  
Old 27.11.2014, 19:25
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Re: Gold Buying

First it was Germany, then it was the Dutch.

Now, there is France.

Marine Le Pen, the leader of the French right-wing Front National party, and who is currently leading in preliminary polls, ahead of president Hollande, wrote a letter to the Central bank of France a couple of days ago, which detailed a list of demands re France's gold:


- Urgent repatriation of all of our gold reserves located abroad back to French soil

- An immediate discontinuation of any gold sales program

- Conversely, a gradual reallocation of a significant portion of foreign exchange reserves in the balance sheet of the Bank of France by buying gold at each significant decrease in the price of an ounce (with a recommendation of 20%)

- A suspension of any financial commitment or loan contract of our gold reserves

- At the patrimonial and financial balance of the 2004 gold sales transactions ordered by N. Sarkozy




Remember, France is no minor player in the gold market scene. They “officially” hold the fourth largest gold reserve in the World. We aren’t talking about a couple of tons, we are talking about thousands of tons!
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  #913  
Old 27.11.2014, 19:32
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Re: Gold Buying

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Most probably this chart is useful for showing recent changes, i.e. gold accumulated in the last few years.

But IMO the data for those countries that have held gold or have been accumulating gold for much longer periods is completely inaccurate. And for good reason since many countries, whether right or wrong, see these data as part of their state secrets. The countries I'm thinking of are the USA, Russia, China and, in addition, (I will lump them together), the Middle East. Many consider the 8000 odd tons claimed by the US as highly suspect, since they have for decades refused to allow an audit.

Also China almost certainly has significantly more than the 1000 odd tons attributed to that country's official holdings. Alasdair Macleod recently guesstimated a figure of 25,000 to 30,000 tons which seems much more likely. As he points out the Chinese state has been interested in accumulation gold from the 1980s onwards when the West was hell bent on selling their's.

Similarly Russia could easily have much more gold that the Guardian figure of 1150 odd tons. One source, Jim Willie puts it as high as 20,000 tons.

Alasdair Macleod's chart of possible changes in gold holdings in the 1980s to 2002.



Just some thoughts of mine!
Murky business!!
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  #914  
Old 28.11.2014, 23:11
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Re: Gold Buying

Indian govt. surprisingly scrapped their gold import restrictions today; combined with the negative GOFO rates this should be driving up gold prices, but they fell again today
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  #915  
Old 29.11.2014, 12:53
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Re: Gold Buying

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Indian govt. surprisingly scrapped their gold import restrictions today; combined with the negative GOFO rates this should be driving up gold prices, but they fell again today

Buying gold today is like catching a falling knife, not recommended.
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  #916  
Old 29.11.2014, 13:11
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Re: Gold Buying

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Buying gold today is like catching a falling knife, not recommended.
For me holding paper money is tantamount to dancing with a whirling dervish holding a double-edged scimitar in each hand.
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  #917  
Old 29.11.2014, 13:12
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Re: Gold Buying

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For me holding paper money is tantamount to dancing with a whirling dervish holding a double-edged scimitar in each hand.
I'll hold your money for you if it makes you feel any better.
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  #918  
Old 29.11.2014, 18:17
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Re: Gold Buying

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Buying gold today is like catching a falling knife, not recommended.
You've made exactly this point more than once in this thread. It's perfectly plain that YOU don't recommend buying gold. It's also perfectly plain that you consistently misinterpret a store of wealth as an investment, apparently not knowing the difference (and not caring that there is one). And you persist in parroting this half-baked opinion...

Are you by any chance taking a correspondence course in trolling?
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  #919  
Old 29.11.2014, 18:40
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Re: Gold Buying

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You've made exactly this point more than once in this thread. It's perfectly plain that YOU don't recommend buying gold. It's also perfectly plain that you consistently misinterpret a store of wealth as an investment, apparently not knowing the difference (and not caring that there is one). And you persist in parroting this half-baked opinion...



Are you by any chance taking a correspondence course in trolling?

Gold is not a store of wealth, which you should have realised by now, it never has been, what is so difficult to understand ?
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  #920  
Old 29.11.2014, 18:46
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Re: Gold Buying

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Gold is not a store of wealth, which you should have realised by now, it never has been, what is so difficult to understand ?
On exactly what is your conclusion based??
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