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  #101  
Old 15.03.2011, 19:25
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

I do love the whiff of righteous indignation on the thread. I have had several chats with advisors / sales team from a fairly commonly discussed IFA. I don't like the cold calling strategy, and have taken to telling representatives of another company that I am in fact dead, and only to contact me through intercession via prayer. That worked.

On the discussions with the IFA I do talk to, I am astonished that ANYONE would sign up to a long term or any other investment without knowing how much goes to the fund directly and how much goes against other costs. If you go direct to UBS or anyone that sells a fund, guess what - they charge you as well. It is the same decision making process you need to make with any purchase, and the same rule applies, let the buyer beware. Get the full prospectus of any offer, read it, and then read it again, including the small print. I agree, all the sales staff for these companies could do with better instruction and a more professional approach to their role. No means no boys....but perspective is also required.
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  #102  
Old 15.03.2011, 19:54
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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On the discussions with the IFA I do talk to, I am astonished that ANYONE would sign up to a long term or any other investment without knowing how much goes to the fund directly and how much goes against other costs. If you go direct to UBS or anyone that sells a fund, guess what - they charge you as well.
Nobody is disputing their right to charge for what they do. Nobody works for free. But the issue is the way the charge is levied, ie up front versus some continuous charge. I am fortunate to work for ABB and ABB run their own fund saving scheme called AVADIS in which you can pay money into the scheme and chose your risk level from about 5 levels. Management costs are not up front but a percentage of the sum held and extremely low. I can also withdraw or change my strategy whenever I like.

There is also a company bonus scheme which means the company pays me an extr interest of 3 percent per year on the initial 15,000 CHF.

I guess other companies do something similar so its worth asking around.

Last edited by amogles; 17.03.2011 at 14:24.
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  #103  
Old 17.03.2011, 14:19
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

It's a shame these companies insist on censorship of their names.
I visited the buildings of two who trade from Basel, one has no name plate, the other does, which kind of lands some credibility to one, and less to the other, who is obviously renting offices by the hour.
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  #104  
Old 17.03.2011, 14:28
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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It's a shame these companies insist on censorship of their names.
I visited the buildings of two who trade from Basel, one has no name plate, the other does, which kind of lands some credibility to one, and less to the other, who is obviously renting offices by the hour.
I's actually a pretty short sighted strategy. When you google some of these companies, you will find virtually nothing besides their own official web presence and various mirrors of that. Their lawyers have probably hunted everybody down who has anything to say about them for fear that it might reflect on them negatively. The result is, however, that the person googling them gets the impression that seeing they have left so few traces in the broader fabric of common knowledge that the Internet represents, that they cannot be very significant or have only just started up. This doesn't excatly inspire confidence.
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  #105  
Old 17.03.2011, 14:41
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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So what are you implying there.
If you like you are more than welcome to come and visit me on the farm.
Is that some sort of thinly veiled threat - you have form - or a nice offer of a holiday in the Sierras? Both are kinda curious.
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  #106  
Old 17.03.2011, 14:43
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Is that some sort of thinly veiled threat - you have form - or a nice offer of a holiday in the Sierras? Both are kinda curious.
Given the threatening PM I received from this guy (and it appears I'm not the only one) I would suggest it is the former rather than the later.
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  #107  
Old 17.03.2011, 14:45
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Is that some sort of thinly veiled threat - you have form - or a nice offer of a holiday in the Sierras? Both are kinda curious.
I saw it as, "I'm nothing to do with finance. I'm in farming. Come and look if you don't believe me."

But maybe I'm just naive.
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  #108  
Old 17.03.2011, 14:53
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Can you run that by me again didnt understand
Nobody expected you would..

Seems to me like you are one of these or at least involved in the industry. Why then otherwise would you get so involved or start getting pushy & rude like they do?

Let's face it, for some reason these people can't get real jobs or noone wants to employ them so that is maybe a good reason not to have anything to do with them.
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  #109  
Old 17.03.2011, 14:54
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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So what are you implying there.
If you like you are more than welcome to come and visit me on the farm.
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Can you run that by me again didnt understand
Can you run that by me again please? I didn't quite understand your meaning.
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  #110  
Old 18.03.2011, 00:37
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I saw it as, "I'm nothing to do with finance. I'm in farming. Come and look if you don't believe me."

But maybe I'm just naive.

Its exactly that, your not naive at all
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  #111  
Old 18.03.2011, 01:34
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Its exactly that, your not naive at all
I finally get why you got so aggressive - it was the remarks about the 37 companies in one building, right? Took me some time to figure out that your "ex-"employer is according to their website just around the corner from the address KMGSUISSE was talking about. Probably the same block only another entrance. Had a short look on linkedin and the guy running the Basel office of your ex-employer is at the very same time a partner in one of the companies that threatened EF with their lawyers...
So I was naive to think that you were one of the honest guys being annoyed that people only talk about the black sheep in your "ex"-industry.
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  #112  
Old 18.03.2011, 10:51
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I finally get why you got so aggressive - it was the remarks about the 37 companies in one building, right? Took me some time to figure out that your "ex-"employer is according to their website just around the corner from the address KMGSUISSE was talking about. Probably the same block only another entrance. Had a short look on linkedin and the guy running the Basel office of your ex-employer is at the very same time a partner in one of the companies that threatened EF with their lawyers...
So I was naive to think that you were one of the honest guys being annoyed that people only talk about the black sheep in your "ex"-industry.
I think it is their standard tactics:

1) Use aggressive lawyers to remove their name from the web as much as possible, so that it doesn't show up in a web search linked to negative comments; and at the same time

2) Get their employees to create false accounts to post in the online discussions as much as possible, never mentioning the name of the company of course, but trying to muddy the waters as much as possible and cast doubt in the minds of people who happen to come across the discussion. I guess they don't really care what the write, as long as it makes the thread hard to follow and leaves the casual viewer confused if there is really a problem with these companies or not.
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  #113  
Old 18.03.2011, 11:07
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

3) Put a few news articles about unrelated scams on your website.

For example, if you are running fforbes-Hamilton and Partners [fictitious company name], you put a few reports about the Madoff scam on fforbes-hamilton-group.com

Then when somebody googles "fforbes-Hamilton scam", your site appears towards the top of the list. You hope that punters get bored after reading three reports about Madoff, won't decide to read the several following pages relating to your company's shady practices and will decide that fforbes-Hamilton and Partners is an honest venture (which, of course, it is - very much so).
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  #114  
Old 18.03.2011, 11:07
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I think it is their standard tactics:

1) Use aggressive lawyers to remove their name from the web as much as possible, so that it doesn't show up in a web search linked to negative comments; and at the same time

2) Get their employees to create false accounts to post in the online discussions as much as possible, never mentioning the name of the company of course, but trying to muddy the waters as much as possible and cast doubt in the minds of people who happen to come across the discussion. I guess they don't really care what the write, as long as it makes the thread hard to follow and leaves the casual viewer confused if there is really a problem with these companies or not.
Do they also have anything to do with Scientology by any chance?
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  #115  
Old 18.03.2011, 11:07
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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I think it is their standard tactics:

1) Use aggressive lawyers to remove their name from the web as much as possible, so that it doesn't show up in a web search linked to negative comments; and at the same time

2) Get their employees to create false accounts to post in the online discussions as much as possible, never mentioning the name of the company of course, but trying to muddy the waters as much as possible and cast doubt in the minds of people who happen to come across the discussion. I guess they don't really care what the write, as long as it makes the thread hard to follow and leaves the casual viewer confused if there is really a problem with these companies or not.
I think you give them too much credit, I don't think they work so planned. It is just the fourth or fifth time one of the advisors comes on here and tries to push his position through that it is "a job" and that the negative sides we see are a part of it. It simply isn't - there are good financial advisors that do not need to cold call people and do not sell rubbish that is loaded with upfront fees for years... the companies discussed here have simply an unhealthy amount of criminal energy.
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  #116  
Old 21.03.2011, 13:16
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Hi,

I found this interesting article online

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle5231006.ece

so it would make perfect sense to ask for total transparency concerning the breakdown of fees.

Most of the people selling here are from the UK and the law in uk is being changed in order to increase transparency around commission vs fee based services.
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  #117  
Old 21.03.2011, 21:03
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Hello all,
So my position is clear I have worked as an adviser for banks in the UK in an advice role for several years.

The article link above relates to what is known as the RDR, Retail Distribution Review, which comes into force at the end of 2012. If you think you would benefit from seeing an adviser I would suggest you look for the following:

1. Well qualified-I know there is no guarantee that this means good advice but I generally hold up the greater the level of knowledge of existing products the better in terms of reviewing etc.

2. Fees-Either by the hour or an annual AMC for portfolio management, rebalancing etc., with no commission being taken. I would personally plump for the hourly option.

3. Fully Independent- The "selected providers" twaddle is just another way of saying "limited selection".

I do take my line of work seriously as I have seen the result that poor advice has had quite a few customers over the years. I am interested to see what responses this brings particular as I know there are a number of banking and finance pros on here. The one thing to remember is sometimes the best advice can be to do nothing.

Regards,
The Horse
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  #118  
Old 05.04.2011, 12:45
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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3) Put a few news articles about unrelated scams on your website.

For example, if you are running fforbes-Hamilton and Partners [fictitious company name], you put a few reports about the Madoff scam on fforbes-hamilton-group.com

Then when somebody googles "fforbes-Hamilton scam", your site appears towards the top of the list. You hope that punters get bored after reading three reports about Madoff, won't decide to read the several following pages relating to your company's shady practices and will decide that fforbes-Hamilton and Partners is an honest venture (which, of course, it is - very much so).
You are SOOOO right with 3). I just tried googling one of our well discussed companies + scam. And guess what "Scam by Madoff was suspected at JPMorgan - lawyer". Practical defense against google popping up search results about the REAL SCAM about this so-called company (TOP GEAR rhyme).
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  #119  
Old 13.04.2011, 12:08
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

Which authority should someone contact if:
- they feel that they have been misled as a client?
- they feel that they have been misled as an employee?
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  #120  
Old 13.04.2011, 16:56
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Re: Financial Mis-selling to expats

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Well, as no-one has ever come forward to say that they have actually turned a profit out of a product sold by one of these companies, you may well be correct.

Or is there someone out there who has ?????
Only had a "cold call" from one company who were too pushy. Chose another myself with 2 offices in Switzerland (I deal with the one in Zurich). Been happy with them so far.

Two insurance bonds, each with different major companies. One is holding Autocall notes and the other is doing rather well in various funds and loyalty bonus on maturity. Also, QROPS and an account with their fund platform for trying my own hand at fund investing.

Obviously not for everyone.
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