Phos with all due respect all I can say is your comment is utter stupidity!!!!! Why should I pay for some 80 year olds birthday whom I don't even know, Im all for welfare of the elderly (isnt that AHV or some other tax I already pay) but come on "full brass marching band and food" I'm sure the 80 year old has millions CHF and doesn't need the damn church to throw her a party using my money!!! And a lot of people turn 80 every day but I dont really care, If I know you and you turn 80 then I will throw you an amazing party myself that is if you mean anything at all to me!! And 100 CHF to 200 CHF per month is 1200 CHF to 2400 CHF per year this would be a nice weeks vacation!!!!!!

Im American and that mixture of church & state does me in too. BUT I understand the concept of the Swiss. The churches here do seem to help their parishioners far more than in the U.S. And as many others said, it is VOLUNTARY! If you pay the tax, you have the church resources. If you choose not to then you cannot.

My Swiss boyfriend last year had to pay back taxes to the Catholic church. However, he is non-believer. Never attends services. So, after he paid this. He wrote a letter to the church wanting out. This is because if you dont and your stop paying the taxes owed, they will come after you for those monies owed...

OT - Didn't the seperation of church and state in the US come about to protect the church? It's just that now it seems to be about "protecting" the state. ( fwiw, I'm a disestablishmentarian, and also think churches should only get charitable status for actually charity work they do... ).

How do you know what this 80 year old did in her life to help her community or her church or her town? Older people are looked after here and in some cases "revered". Yes, revered.

Remember my newbie friend, someday you'll be 80. I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you are alone, sick and without family and friends. Her church and community may be all she has.

I can see you've got a great attitude - you should do really well here in Switzerland

And on that happy note, I'm off to church where I shall pray for your soul.

Separation of church and state in the US is because the founding fathers didn't want a state religion (e.g., like the Anglican Church). But churches in the US are very much involved in government, encouraging their members to support this cause or that, vote this way or that. Whether or not you think that's appropriate depends on your perspective, I suppose.

I like the term disestablishmentarian. And I agree about the charitable component. There are religious organizations that do a lot of good, but there are also good secular ones as well.

Both my husband and I registered with no religion. We got a weird look, and I've had Jehovah's witnesses or something visit me twice, but no problems otherwise.

Phos may be accused of many things, but stupidity is not one of them.

That's what i was thinking about it (underpinning my will :-)

Do you think there will be any problem in the citizen-acquiring process if you stop paying church tax?

No.

Even The Lost are allowed to become Swiss... (after all, there's always hope for the future... )

Just make sure you're all square with the authorities and don't owe any back taxes.

My comment has nothing to do with saying her church should not have thrown her this great grand party I think that was great and I'm sure it was well deserved and she rightfully was "revered" by her community. my comment is There is no reason I should be taxed to throw someone a birthday party.

Good job you aren't, then, isn't it?

Now stop moaning, and make me a cup of tea.

I didn't accuse Phos of being stupid

Sophistry, old chap. Sophistry.

Your intention was clear.

Now, where's that tea?

I found when I was at the gemeindehaus and responded that I could be muslim, does that count for the church tax? They laughed and told me it was a 'religious' tax.

Yes and in your own country/church that might be the case.

I don't think there is a tradition here in the churches/country where someone who turns 80 gets a taxpayer paid birthday party - but in that particular community/church they did so I assume that her community thought she deserved it.

I guess we can all say that "There is no reason I should be taxed to _________.
Fill in the blank

When I think of real abuses of tax money, giving old ladies a party isn't one of them besides we don't know how much of it was privately funded right?

It just seems to me that if you want to be happy while a visitor, worker, or potential citizen of any country, you'll have a much better experience if you sort of check your own frame of reference at the door.

There is so much bitching and whinning about the Swiss, it does get tiring sometimes.

Actually maybe everybody would be a lot happier if we threw birthday parties all the time

Not quite sure where these figures are coming from, but a 200CHF/month church tax (in canton Zurich) would mean you were earning something like 30K/month... in which case I reckon you could afford to pay it and still have a "f**cking nice weeks vacation" with the leftovers.

FWIW my church tax bill is a fairly manageable 8CHF per month.

Oh, of course, in your home country, you have a choice on how your taxes for social services are used, no? And you even have a choice not to pay it at all, no?

Bah!

Oooooh okay now I can manage that! I would not mind paying that.