Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 05.04.2012, 12:17
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,400
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,576 Times in 6,201 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
I am surprised that Christian people object to paying the Church Tax. I don't pay it, as I do not expect the Church to marry me in Church, or to give a service for my burial, or to visit me when I get old, or if I am ill- and as I never attend services. But for those of you who expect those things to happen- who do you think pays the wages of the Vicars and Priests and their staff, who do you think pays for the Church repairs and the Vicarages that houses Vicars, Priests and staff. Who pays for their cars and petrols so they can visit the sick, the frail, the elderly all over the place, including in remote rural areas. The Catholic Church may have support from Rome, but the Protestant Churches here have NO INCOME WHATSOEVER. do you really think the Vicars can work for nothing, and support their families, etc? I am very good friends with one of the local Vicars- and we often talk about it. In Neuchatel the Church tax is optional - and they are really struggling to make ends meet. They have had to sell about 40% of their vicarages, and now have just a few Vicars sharing the work of many Parishes. And when people call the Vicar because a relative is dead, they say, can you organise the funeral and the service, but please NO religion, as we don't believe too much!

In my view, either you do, or you don't. I don't. Mix and Max is sheer hypocrisy imho. Fact is, if you want the Church to be there for you in happy and tough times, you should contribute to its upkeep, salaries, facilities, etc, etc. In Neuchatel btw you can pay Church taxes to the Synagogue in La Chaux-de-Fonds. And of course any Muslim knows that they are expected not to pay 1%, but 10% of income/wealth.
One of my cousin was an Episcopalian Minister in NJ, and the congregation paid all the expenses shared between them, I am sure a lot more than 1 %.
I know a priest whose responsibilities include the chaplaincy of a large hospital and he says you would be surprised at the number of people there are who never went to church in all their life and haven't a clue about even the basics of Catholic belief and have always said they didn't believe in God, but during the final days of their lives ask to talk to a priest and want to know what's going to happen to them afterwards or ask the priest to pray with them. So it shows that deep down people believe a lot more than on the surface they are prepared to admit.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05.04.2012, 12:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,615
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,921 Times in 5,232 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Here again we might have a cultural divide.

In my home country a church member supports his chrurch through voluntary donations, not taxes. Often people contribute significant sums, often the biblical 10 percent of one's income - which is more than most of the CH church tax rates.

For me, it is not the money but rather the forced nature of the Swiss system. I give to my church as my conscience dictates. I give to support those programs I believe in, and I decline to fund those programs with which I disagree. As a socially liberal woman, you might expect that the Catholic Church and I are at loggerheads over a few issues.

Discretion over donations is a very powerful tool for the laity... One is able to get the church hierachy's attention rather quickly when funds start to dry up.

This is lacking in the Swiss system, one is expected to accept the official line, all or nothing. While this obviously has worked well for the Swiss church, it is not something with which I am comfortable.

Additionally we foreigners have no rights in the Swiss parish. We may not vote on parish matters, we have no voice. It's bad enough being a second class residents in the temporal sphere, but in the spiritual this exclusion is particularly painful.


I know that this is Switzerland, not my home country - and I now have to do things the 'Swiss" way - or leave. I have come to accept that the Swiss Church has no place for a Catholic like me. This rankles, and I grew up in the universal church. That's what big C Catholic means after all. The Church should be one the world over. But as with so many things, Switzerland is the exception that proves the rule. And so I no longer practice my faith, at least on Swiss soil.

My objection to the church tax isn't hypocrisy, but rather goes to the core of my relationship with the Church.

I don't know if this makes any sense...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #83  
Old 05.04.2012, 13:29
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,400
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 14,576 Times in 6,201 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
Additionally we foreigners have no rights in the Swiss parish. We may not vote on parish matters, we have no voice. It's bad enough being a second class residents in the temporal sphere, but in the spiritual this exclusion is particularly painful.
Are you sure about that?

The council of my local church has several foreigners elected to it.

So maybe they can't vote but they can be elected.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05.04.2012, 13:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

I entirely see what you mean Meloncollie. In Neuchatel, Vaud and I believe Geneva, the Church Tax is now voluntary- unlike most C/Kantons in CH. This is quite recent and the Churches are really struggling to keep up their services tot he community. As said, they have sold about 40% of their vicarages- and that helped for a bit, but said money is now gone. On top of that many large corporate groups have stopped paying their contributions (the biggest here being Phillip Morris) - and they are in dire straights. Vicars retiring are not being replaced, ancillary staff and deacons are not replaced- and the 'catchment' area for each Vicar is now HUGE. Many people are not paying anymore, and yet expecting the Church to be there for them, visiting the frail, the sick and the elderly, maintaining Chaplaincies in hospitals, old-peoples homes, etc, etc. Personally I do not pay tax, but do not expect any of those services.

If you belong to a Club, Golf, squash, tennis or any kind of Club - do you expect to pay subs or not. Can you really say 'well, I'd like to join in the activities, but I ain't paying'? As Amogles says, the Church does give support and comfort to many who are not Church goers or even believers, per say, and that is wonderful. But to say because a Church serves 'God' - it should automatically be free for all - just does not work. Those friends of mine around here who do support the Church with their tax, and all sorts of voluntary activities- do it with the greatest of pleasure, and yet - it does become very disheartening to have to constantly organise table-top, craft, cakes, etc, stalls and fairs to support a system used by so many who do not contribute. We are not religious at all, but support them in a lot of the activities organised for the elderly in the area, and they totally respect the fact we do not pay our taxes as we 'do our bit' in a different way.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 27.09.2015, 15:42
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nussbaumen
Posts: 19
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
melvinkoll has no particular reputation at present
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Same here. I was a bit astonished when they ask me my religion when I wnet to register at Gemeinde office.

Actually I wanted to ask what happens if you tell them that you have no religion even if you are a catholic and couple of years later you would like to declare that you are a cathcolic.

Will they make you pay the church tax from that time onwards whereyou did the change or will they make you pay the church tax since the beginning?
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 27.09.2015, 16:54
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,306
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 10,912 Times in 4,089 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
Are you sure about that?
The council of my local church has several foreigners elected to it.
So maybe they can't vote but they can be elected.
Until a few years ago 'aliens' could not be members of the 'Landeskirche' Reformed Church in Canton Zürich. The ruling was changed and now they can. The relevant Site says this is true of 'most cantons'.

http://www.ref.ch/die-reformierten-k...itgliedschaft/

(As to be expected, the 'aliens' are supposed to understand the German )
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 27.09.2015, 17:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,642
Groaned at 152 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,549 Times in 3,211 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
Actually I wanted to ask what happens if you tell them that you have no religion even if you are a catholic and couple of years later you would like to declare that you are a cathcolic.
St Peter will be informed and you'll end up in hell.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 27.09.2015, 17:05
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Luzern
Posts: 915
Groaned at 118 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 2,200 Times in 856 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
St Peter will be informed and you'll end up in hell.
But they'll make you stay in purgatory until you settle the bill...
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 27.09.2015, 17:26
crazykittylady's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glatt
Posts: 770
Groaned at 117 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 687 Times in 341 Posts
crazykittylady has a reputation beyond reputecrazykittylady has a reputation beyond reputecrazykittylady has a reputation beyond reputecrazykittylady has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
Will they make you pay the church tax from that time onwards whereyou did the change or will they make you pay the church tax since the beginning?
No, because that's left up to you and your church body.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 27.09.2015, 17:29
TiMow's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 9,310
Groaned at 292 Times in 196 Posts
Thanked 12,189 Times in 5,300 Posts
TiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond reputeTiMow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
Same here. I was a bit astonished when they ask me my religion when I wnet to register at Gemeinde office.

Actually I wanted to ask what happens if you tell them that you have no religion even if you are a catholic and couple of years later you would like to declare that you are a cathcolic.

Will they make you pay the church tax from that time onwards whereyou did the change or will they make you pay the church tax since the beginning?
They send round the Spanish Inquisition, until you comply.

You should probably expect a visit, soon.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TiMow for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 27.09.2015, 17:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,615
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,921 Times in 5,232 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post

Actually I wanted to ask what happens if you tell them that you have no religion even if you are a catholic and couple of years later you would like to declare that you are a cathcolic.

Will they make you pay the church tax from that time onwards whereyou did the change or will they make you pay the church tax since the beginning?
Follow your conscience.

I am Catholic. I try to be a good Catholic, according to my conscience formed by the Church in which I was raised, which is sometimes at odds with the occasionally 'un-catholic' (small c) local Swiss parish. According to my 'big C' Catholic conscience, I do not see supporting a xenophobic, exclusive, closed-minded parish a requirement to be a good Catholic. Rather the opposite, in fact.

I am not registered as Catholic here, because doing so would mean that I would be forced to support to a parish whose attitudes and practices I honestly believe to be at odds with the central message of the Gospels.

I attend Mass elsewhere, at a parish where more openness prevails. I admire the good work that they do, and so I support them, unofficially.

I see no need to involve the State in the state of my soul.

My conscience is clear.


Do as you see best, according to yours.


(I believe, but do not know for certain, that you would pay the church tax from the date of registering. Otherwise all of us furriners would be backdated from the date of baptism. )
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #92  
Old 27.09.2015, 17:47
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 5,028
Groaned at 40 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 7,068 Times in 3,215 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catholic Church taxes???!!!

Quote:
View Post
St Peter will be informed and you'll end up in hell.
St Paul is the tax guy. See Romans 13.

melvinkoll: You can be a Catholic and not be a member of the local church. Just state: Religion, none. Or if you want to be more truthful for statistical and other reasons say: Religion, Christian. Or Catholic (ausgetreten / resigned).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
catholic




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IKEA - more trusted than the church doktor.s Swiss politics/news 36 21.08.2007 12:19
Church [Zug] fish Daily life 1 15.04.2007 13:02
Catholic Church in Basel. UserName Other/general 0 11.03.2007 21:54
english church in basel esybas Family matters/health 1 27.02.2007 20:51
Russian Orthodox church Flashman4 General off-topic 7 21.01.2007 13:40


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0