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Old 30.07.2010, 16:44
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Provisional Tax Estimate

Hi All,

I received a letter today (Staats- und Gemeindesteuern 2010) for my tax and I think what it is, is a provisional estimate of my tax liability for 2010. I have been billed approx CHF 1500 for 'Steuerperiode 2010' payable in September and December this year in instalments.

I'm not quite sure I understand what this means. I only arrived in CH at the end of June, so not sure what these figures relate to. I had used the tax calculator before I even arrived here provided by Credit Suisse and the results showed that I would be liable for far more taxes than the above , which is why I am even more confused with the letter.

Does anyone have an experience of this or can explain what this means? As a bit of background, I am not liable to tax at source as I am married to a Swiss (who has lived in England for the most part of his life so he too like me, does not really understand the system).

I'd be very grateful if someone could shed a bit more light on the above please. Is this amount a payment on account like it is done in the UK on the Self Assessment Tax regime? If so, how is the payment on account figure calculated/arrived at? I know in the UK, your payment on account is basically 50% of your prior years tax liability. Surely this cannot be the case here, as I have no prior year taxes in CH?

Apologies for the long post and also, if this topic has been covered off previously, I'd be very grateful for a link to the posts.

Thanks for reading

M..

Last edited by Pocahontas; 30.07.2010 at 17:39. Reason: typo
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Old 30.07.2010, 19:19
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

Most people not on Quellensteuer are sent a provisional tax return when they move to CH in which you declare your expected income for the current year. This is then used to generate a provisional tax bill for the current year - all current year tax bills are effectively payments on account. You can pay the lot in one go in or before September (they pay you interest if it's before the end of Sept) or in two lots in Sept and Dec (in which case you pay them interest on the amount paid after september). You will then be sent a proper tax return early next year to complete either by the end of March or later in the year if you apply for an extension (very usual), on the basis of (the assessment of) which you will either have more to pay or a rebate due or be fully settled up. In the case of a split year when you move to the country they'll use your entire year's salary both here and there to determine the tax rate then apply that rate to the proportion earned in CH for the period you were in CH. Remember that married couples are taxed as a unit, not individually

The reason the figures are probably low is that the Staats- und Gemeindesteuern bill is only one part of your liability - the other is Direkte Bundesstuer (roughly 2/3 for the former and 1/3 for the latter). That caught us out when we switched to C permits because we were never sent bills for the Direkte Bundessteuer - forgive us for thinking Staats- referred to federal; it isn't, it's canton - and ended up with a 20k federal bill for 3 years payable within 30 days

ETA if you didn't complete a provisional tax return, then this is definitely just a token amount on account so expect to have to pay more!
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Old 31.07.2010, 13:59
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

Many thanks for the explanation. Definitely makes sense to me now. Although the fact that I wasn't sent a provisional tax return to complete makes me wonder if this provisional tax estimate is based on some "finger in the air" methodology..hmm

x
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Old 23.03.2013, 14:19
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

Sorry to boot this old thread, but my search on the forum brought me here and seems to be the right place

I'm new to living and working (and thus Tax!) in Switzerland (B-permit holder).
My husband is the working end in our marriage at least for 2013, and we are ‘taxed at source'. We now received a Provisional Tax Estimate (Staats- und Gemeindesteuern) of the Steueramt of the Stadt Zürich.

My (main) question is:

- If we are taxed at source; wouldn't this Staats- und Gemeindesteuern tax already be paid for on a monthly basis? Or is this a separate tax that is not covered by the 'tax at source' model?

- Second question is on the Tarif we are placed in. This is C0+. As I understand this is based on 'Doppelverdiener' which we are not.

Would anyone with more experience in the Swiss taxes clarify and elaborate on questions above?
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Old 23.03.2013, 15:35
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

Every Canton has it's own system of taxation and every village sets its own rates. So it is difficult to answer detailed questions.

Maybe you can ask at your employer's accounting office? And point out that you should NOT be on a dual earnings tax code.

You are still listed as living in Amsterdam.
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Old 28.10.2015, 18:58
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

When you pay the provisional tax estimate at the beginning of the year, how does it get divided between the federal tax and the cantonal tax?

We paid the amount asked for at the beginning of the year, and now we have another provisional bill asking for more money towards the federal taxes. But in the breakdown it does not seem to reflect all the payments we made earlier in the year. So I am wondering if the payment we made earlier in the year gets partly credited to the federal tax account and the rest to the cantonal tax account?
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Old 28.10.2015, 19:14
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

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When you pay the provisional tax estimate at the beginning of the year, how does it get divided between the federal tax and the cantonal tax?

We paid the amount asked for at the beginning of the year, and now we have another provisional bill asking for more money towards the federal taxes. But in the breakdown it does not seem to reflect all the payments we made earlier in the year. So I am wondering if the payment we made earlier in the year gets partly credited to the federal tax account and the rest to the cantonal tax account?
Nothing gets credited to federal tax, they send the bill separately.
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Old 28.10.2015, 19:15
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

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Nothing gets credited to federal tax, they send the bill separately.
As does the commune.

Tom
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Old 28.10.2015, 19:19
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

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Nothing gets credited to federal tax, they send the bill separately.
Maybe that also varies by canton - I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I got a demand from SG that included the federal parts; it was a nightmare to work out as they'd put credits and debits between the two and none of the numbers I had to pay individually seemed to bear any resemblance to my actual tax, only the total.

This was during the B-C switch and also complicated by a house purchase though.

Edit: "included" --> in the same batch, from the same place, referencing each other - nothing as simple as being on the same invoice or in the same envelope
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Old 28.10.2015, 20:50
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

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Maybe that also varies by canton -
Could be.

In TI, it's three separate bills, but it may have only been one in Zurich, after 25 years it's hard to remember.

Tom
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Old 28.10.2015, 22:02
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

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Could be.

In TI, it's three separate bills, but it may have only been one in Zurich, after 25 years it's hard to remember.

Tom
In Neuchâtel the communal and cantonal or on the same bill and the federal is a different one but the all come in the same envelope and the prepayments are designed to cover all three of them.

So I guess it's just another of those 'depends on the canton' things.
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Old 29.10.2015, 00:05
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Re: Provisional Tax Estimate

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In Neuchâtel the communal and cantonal or on the same bill and the federal is a different one but the all come in the same envelope and the prepayments are designed to cover all three of them.

So I guess it's just another of those 'depends on the canton' things.
Yes, I can confirm that this depends on the canton
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