Hello EF'ers.

I wanted to check if anyone else is suffering from my misery.

Basically I have a small family and I am the only provider for this family.

I have a fairly good salary for Swiss standards I know, but with:

• Rent
• Kinderkrippe
• Diesel
• Food at home
• Food at work
• Internet & TV
• Medical insurances

I have almost nothing left at the end of the month.


So even if I have a decent "about 125K" income it is not really enough to live a comfortable life here in Switzerland.

I even moved to Aargau to get a decent affordable 2 bedroom flat. (3.5 room apartment according to the Swiss)

so anyways, I am sick and tired of always being out of money, so I am considering moving to the UK where you can easily live on 60K pounds in the heart of London.

Oh and I do not spend money on resturants/tech gadgets or expensive clothing.

basically I can cover those things mentioned above and end of the month maybe I am left with 1500 CHF or so

Hi,

Can you give us some figures in your budget, maybe we can see if you are paying too much somewhere.

I am sure you should be able to make ends meet on what you have.

So once you've bought all the necessary things, including food, insurance and accommodation, you're left with CHF1500 a month. That doesn't sound too bad.

I do appreciate that life for a family can be a bit more expensive, but it sounds like you're doing alright.

If you are saving 1500 per month you are probably doing reasonably well. This could be improved by reducing some expenses that are luxury. For example:

1. Take lunch to work instead of buying it everyday
2. Reduce things like spending on alcohol, eating out
3. Shop at places like C&A for kinder clothes

Finding some areas like the examples above can save a bit of cash perhaps taking your savings to 2000 per month, which is a reasonable saving amount.

im pretty certain thats rubbish

Perhaps we could have an idea of your goals? How much would you expect to have left over after all the expenses you listed?

NB: Some expenses you have here, like medical insurance, are simply folded into tax in the UK. You're likely paying less tax on your CHF125k than you would on your GBP60k

Not a very detailed budget but the best I can do right now:

Rent
2050 CHF per month including parking

Kinderkrippe
400 CHF per month

Diesel
about 200-300 CHF per month

Food at home
Current budget is 40 CHF per day = 1240 (includes diapers and stuff)

Food at work
about 200 CHF per month

Internet & TV
100 CHF per month

Medical insurances
750 CHF per month

Forgot this one:
University tution fee = 800 CHF per month


Which lands at about 5840 CHF a month

leaving me with almost 2200 CHF a month

most have forgot something will ask the missus to check our monthly excel budget plan and get back

Perhaps you could replace kinderkrippe with a local playgroup, these are usually a lot cheaper although there isn't any all day care.

like a 700 chf a month shoe budget :-) Why do you need kinderkrippe if the wife is at home all the time ? Can you not take a high 'franchise' and reduce healthinsurance costs ?

Living on a single salary with kids is not easy.
Agreed.

But with what you have put down here, I would think you are doing quite ok.

If it was me, I would get rid of the car and save on fuel and car insurance. Parking cost is removed too. And I would get a bike. Its healthier and cost-effective as well.

Oh and evidently your wife does not work...and you pay for kinderkrippe as well ?

125K corresponds to:

10,400 CHF per month
minus all taxes (lets say 20 % roughly)
= 8,200 CHF per month
minus rent (lets say 2,500 in Zurich for a family of 4)
= 5,700
minus krankenkasse (lets say 800 per month for the family)
= 4,900
Minus food (lets say 1000 per month for a family of 4)
= 3,900
minus Internet and TV (lets say 100 per month)
= 3,800
Minus schooling for the children ( I am really guessing the cost here but lets say 1000 per month)
= 2,800
Minus operating the car (lets say 1,300 per month including insurances etc)
= 1,500

This does not really take into account luxury expenditure such as eating out, having a drink at the local etc.

This is just a rough calculation but I can see ow it can be fairly tight, but still if the savings can be extended to 2000 per month, then I think the OP is doing well to save a bit. People do come here to Switzerland to save a lot more, hence why they move here.

One option is for the wife to start working, some part time work, or trying to tighten the belt in other ways, but it does look pretty difficult especially when we have not factored buying clothes either into the equation.

We have the high "franchise" option = 2500 CHF

also the kinderkrippe is important for the childs social interactions, so she gets to play with other children twice a week which is the last thing I would take away.

First, I don't see how having 2000+ a month left over after paying all your obligations is bad in any way.

That said, if you're the only one working in the family, why are you sending your kid to krippe? Alternatively, if your child is in krippe, why can't your wife earn some extra money? Why aren't you bringing lunch to work? Why are you paying 750 a month for health insurance?

I'm in a similiar situation as the sole income earner of a family of 3, and we don't send our kid to krippe, I bring my lunch to work, I pay 330 a month in health insurance, and I have less money left over after bills than you do, and I've never really been unsatisfied with my financial position.

Gday!

We mush have been typing at the same time

Ignore my rough estimates then. There are some savings you could squeeze out like the lunches you pay at work. Your budget does not include clothing and eating out which probably uses up the remainder of your 2,200 possibly.

I would be relatively happy with saving 2000 per month if I had a family. Other ways to generate money might be to reinvest those savings into some growth funds / shares etc.

My child has never set foot in a kinderkrippe and plays with other kids 3-5 times per week, for free.

whats the 800 a month uni fee for ?

For a perspective in two-parent double income families in Zurich child costs can reach 50k a year.

Can your "trailing spouse" contribute more in earnings/savings without significantly increasing costs?

Remember your salary is in excess of that of most Swiss/unskilled immigrants. What are your expectations in terms of savings at the end of the month?

Bear in mind if you are making AHV and BVG pension contributions this is quite a saving, and especially with Pillar 3 on top, so saving a lower % of overall income (or better % of net income after deductions) may not be so bad.

Most folks are lucky to save an additional 5-10% per month rainy day (given approx 5% AHV/IV/ALV, 5% BVG, 5% employer BVG, 5% Pillar 3 and approx 3-5% interest if lucky).

Obviously your 800 p.m. on Uni is a hit, perhaps it's best to think of it as an investment like your pensions, and include it in your savings % of your nett income?

Reading that; I don't know what you are complaining about.
I gather that you are treating the CHF800 per month tuition fees as an investment. So really you would have CHF3,000 per month.
Back in London you would be very lucky to be able to save CHF3000 (GB£1800) per month after normal living costs.

You don't know what being hard up is mate.
If you were hard up, you would be making sandwiches for lunch, not spending CHF200 a month at work on food.

Now back to living in London.
GB£60,000 would give you GB £3,475 take home after tax.
Commuting costs into Central London, Rent, Council Tax would eat also into that and you would also be left with little.

It amazes me that people do not know how well off they are in Switzerland and you want to see what is coming up in the economy in the UK in the next few months for at least the next three years.

Sounds like you're doing ok... with a wife and a young child...
Unless you have some other goals in life, or aim to buy some luxirious items in the near future your Income and Expenditure seems healthy enough... and you could probably afford to service some previous debts or debts to be in the future...

Small question though... the tag of the thread... do you have any vices we should be aware of? ;-)

The 800 per month tuition fee is obviously a finite payment, i.e. once the uni finishes, so does the payment. This means future savings will increase. I assume the uni fees are for your partner. if so she will be also freed up to commence work when uni finishes. if it is for you, then your university completion may mean a significant pay rise coming if you leverage this well.

I think you are in a pretty good position, you have a car, childs needs are looked after, and you are building for your future with university tuition. Perhaps now is not hte time to make significant savings, but in 1 - 3 years time your savings capacity will increase markedly.