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  #21  
Old 04.08.2008, 19:17
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Just to update this, the figures for 2008 are the same as for 2007 ie
AHV maximum is 79560 and the minimum including coordination deduction is still 23205.
Weird, Bernische Pensionkasse says the coordination deduction is 23'460 for 2008. Is it different in different Kantons or am I misreading something?

"Der versicherte Verdienst entspricht dem massgebenden Jahreslohn abzüglich einem prozentualen Koordinationsabzug von 6 Prozent und einem summenmässigen Koordinationsabzug, der in Anlehnung an die jeweils geltenden AHV/IV-Renten festgelegt wird. Für das Jahr 2008 beträgt der summenmässige Koordinationsabzug CHF 23'460.- Bei Teilzeitbeschäftigten wird er zudem dem Beschäftigungsgrad angepasst. Der versicherte Verdienst bildet die Grundlage für die Berechnung der Beiträge und der Leistungen."
http://www.bpk.ch/user/FachbegriffeA...r=V&inhalt=160
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  #22  
Old 04.08.2008, 19:27
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

Your collective insight is desperately needed. I am trying to figure out what exactly "BVG-Altersguthaben" (retirement assets?) are and how they are calculated - listed on the Leistungsausweis received from the pension kasse.

Thanks!
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  #23  
Old 04.08.2008, 21:32
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Your collective insight is desperately needed. I am trying to figure out what exactly "BVG-Altersguthaben" (retirement assets?) are and how they are calculated - listed on the Leistungsausweis received from the pension kasse.

Thanks!
Anticipated (hypothetical) vested benefits at age 65 assuming salary remains constant.
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  #24  
Old 22.08.2008, 21:39
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

Quick question. Have moved out of Switzerland and the EU (so am allowed to have access to the cash in my Pillar II). However, I wanted to see if it would be possible to transfer my pension fund to my new employers pension scheme. Unfortunately, Group Mutual is adamant that I can only transfer my pension fund to another pension scheme in Switzerland and I cannot transfer it to a pension fund in the UK (I am on secondment outside of the EU but my new employer is in the UK). Is Group Mutual right? it seems ridiculous tha I can't transfer my pension fund to another pension scheme (my new employer cannot accept cash, can only accept transfer from another pension fund). thanks in advance for your help.
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  #25  
Old 23.08.2008, 19:19
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Quick question. Have moved out of Switzerland and the EU (so am allowed to have access to the cash in my Pillar II). However, I wanted to see if it would be possible to transfer my pension fund to my new employers pension scheme. Unfortunately, Group Mutual is adamant that I can only transfer my pension fund to another pension scheme in Switzerland and I cannot transfer it to a pension fund in the UK (I am on secondment outside of the EU but my new employer is in the UK). Is Group Mutual right? it seems ridiculous tha I can't transfer my pension fund to another pension scheme (my new employer cannot accept cash, can only accept transfer from another pension fund). thanks in advance for your help.
This is a taxation problem. A Swiss pension fund has only 3 options:
  1. Tax free transfer to registered Swiss pension fund of new employer.
  2. Tax free transfer to an approved Swiss vested-benefit account (so called Freizügigkeitskonto). Prerequisite is unemployment
  3. Deduct taxes and pay out rest. Prerequisite is leaving country or starting own business, etc.
Possible workaround: The pension fund liquidates your pension, deducts taxes (Swiss Federal and Cantonal) and transfers remainder to your account at your new employer.
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  #26  
Old 26.08.2008, 17:57
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

Hi,

Question on buying missing years...I am moving to Geneva at the end of the year (working in Vaud) aged 33. I have read a lot about contributing additional amounts into the second pillar pension to reduce tax rates (up to 20% of gross) - but I can't find the specifics to the questions below!

So questions are:

1. If I buy the missing years, and then I leave CH say in 5 years time, can I withdraw that additional money I have paid in (thereby having saved on the tax) or as it was missing years, is that defined as part of the 'obligatory payments'?

2. Does my ability to invest in the pillar 2 and 3 pensions change if i decide to live in France rather than Geneva?

thanks in advance!
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  #27  
Old 26.08.2008, 18:10
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Hi,

Question on buying missing years...I am moving to Geneva at the end of the year (working in Vaud) aged 33. I have read a lot about contributing additional amounts into the second pillar pension to reduce tax rates (up to 20% of gross) - but I can't find the specifics to the questions below!

So questions are:

1. If I buy the missing years, and then I leave CH say in 5 years time, can I withdraw that additional money I have paid in (thereby having saved on the tax) or as it was missing years, is that defined as part of the 'obligatory payments'?
Consider that you do save on tax when you pay in but you'll have to pay back some when you withdraw. It's not a free lunch tax avoidance scheme.
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  #28  
Old 05.09.2010, 20:12
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Hi,

Question on buying missing years...I am moving to Geneva at the end of the year (working in Vaud) aged 33. I have read a lot about contributing additional amounts into the second pillar pension to reduce tax rates (up to 20% of gross) - but I can't find the specifics to the questions below!

So questions are:

1. If I buy the missing years, and then I leave CH say in 5 years time, can I withdraw that additional money I have paid in (thereby having saved on the tax) or as it was missing years, is that defined as part of the 'obligatory payments'?

2. Does my ability to invest in the pillar 2 and 3 pensions change if i decide to live in France rather than Geneva?

thanks in advance!
Hi, you have the same abilities to invest in pillar 2 and 3 when you live in France. You can only withdraw the money when you move outside the EU (or when you become self employed instead of salaried). You can only buy back missing year contributions up to 20% of your salary during the first 5 years of your stay in Switzerland.
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  #29  
Old 05.09.2010, 20:40
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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If he is earning more than 25K they need to have him in a pension fund.

1. The minimums are set out in a table that you should be able to get hold of. It is as Shorrick says with the progressions being 18-25(=0%), 25-35, 35-45 etc. Note under 25 there is risk only. What the contributions are based on is dependent on the scheme you have in place. The minimum is on the salary lying in the difference between the AHV loan maximum and pillar 1 contributions. The maximum is theoretically fairly open until the last five years of contributions when it is in tight bands. If however you contribute too much the tax office might see this as not acceptable - problem here is that once contributed money cannot be taken back out of a pension scheme...

2. The minimum contribution of the company is 50% of the cost in which case your model won't work.

3. I know you never asked this question. As a company owner the pension scheme is the best method of tax evasion possible. This is especially true if you have multiple employees. For example if you have a good year and have surplus cash you can prepay BVG contributions up to a maximum of 5 years. This is then tax free. Now look how good this can be with this example...

4 employees each earning 100K
Pension rate is 20%
You prepay 5 years worth of BVG = 400K
You then decide to liquidate the company.
You transfer the pension schemes of the employees to their next employers scheme.
You then are still left with your scheme and your prepaid locked account. The company is closing the money is there and you are the beneficial owner. The money is thus transfered into your pension fund ie all of it.
So this is the same as a UK company with an Executive Pension Scheme for the directors. You make large contributions into the Executive Pension fund and then bankrupt the company.
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  #30  
Old 28.09.2010, 19:37
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

Hi,
I have a question regarding this. I am going to work as an employee for a certain company for just 1.5 months. Should the employer pay the pillar 2 for me? Since the OP has stated that it is only for employees working for more than 3 months, I assume this does not apply in this scenario. Is that correct?
Thankyou...
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  #31  
Old 24.01.2011, 17:24
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

Hi, I scoured forum through search but can not find any definitive and current information on what the percentage rates per age group is for 2nd pillar contribution, does anyone have this and are this fixed rates as my current employer gave me a calculation and the rate seems low based on dated info I found here. Rates that they show are 6%, 8%, 11% and 13% for 25-34, 35-44, 45-54 and 55-65 age groups.

Thanks
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  #32  
Old 24.01.2011, 17:51
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

it is very employee/employer/pension plan specific.

there is an absolute minimum but after that it depends on:

the pension plan: what is covered: accident, death, injury, injury disabling you from further work, etc
you: your age, health, etc
your personal circumstances: wife, kids etc
your salary
...
...

the objective is more or less to give you a fixed percentage of your final salary for 10--15 years after retirement for the 2nd pillar.

your employer and their pension plan provider certainly, should be able to give you 'your specific' calculations, which will be different from the person sitting beside you in the office!
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  #33  
Old 28.11.2013, 15:39
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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the objective is more or less to give you a fixed percentage of your final salary for 10--15 years after retirement for the 2nd pillar.
Are the pension payouts upon retirement guaranteed until death regardless of how long you still live or (if you live very long) will you at some point run out of capital left to fund your annual payments?
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  #34  
Old 05.01.2015, 20:00
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

Gonna re kindle this thread as I'm interested.

So I got it I think. The company have a minimum obligation of roughly 3,500+/- per year in 2nd pillar, or of at least matching the employees contributions. ie if employee pays 5k, employer must match the 5k?

Can the employer refuse to accept employee contributions and cap there out lay at 3,500 per year?
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  #35  
Old 05.01.2015, 20:46
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Gonna re kindle this thread as I'm interested.

So I got it I think. The company have a minimum obligation of roughly 3,500+/- per year in 2nd pillar, or of at least matching the employees contributions. ie if employee pays 5k, employer must match the 5k?

Can the employer refuse to accept employee contributions and cap there out lay at 3,500 per year?
The employer can choose how much of your salary they will pay pension contributions on, it does not need to be the full salary, so Yes they can cap payments.
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  #36  
Old 05.01.2015, 20:51
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Gonna re kindle this thread as I'm interested.

So I got it I think. The company have a minimum obligation of roughly 3,500+/- per year in 2nd pillar, or of at least matching the employees contributions. ie if employee pays 5k, employer must match the 5k?

Can the employer refuse to accept employee contributions and cap there out lay at 3,500 per year?
Employers have to pay into the pot, at a fixed percentage of your salary, which varies with age. However, this obligation exists only for what you earn that lies between around 25k and around 85k per year. They may choose to also contribute the same percentage for what you earn above the 85k bracket, but that is discretionary.

As far as I know, you are obliged to match what your employer pays in, though there may possibly be an opt-out for the discretionary part? Not sure?
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  #37  
Old 05.01.2015, 20:51
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

Always ask your pension fund contact person... pension fund regulations can vary so wildly from LPP/BVG minimums, if you want to know what your maximum buyable amount is (no minimum usually - I suppose unless the pension fund regulations stipulate that) then the best way is to ask.
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  #38  
Old 05.01.2015, 20:55
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Always ask your pension fund contact person... pension fund regulations can vary so wildly from LPP/BVG minimums, if you want to know what your maximum buyable amount is (no minimum usually - I suppose unless the pension fund regulations stipulate that) then the best way is to ask.
Right. You can look at your statement for a rough idea, or just write to them for an exact amount.

But... I don't think he was talking about buy ins, but rather regular in payments. As far as I know, employers won't match buy ins.
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  #39  
Old 05.01.2015, 21:03
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

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Right. You can look at your statement for a rough idea, or just write to them for an exact amount.

But... I don't think he was talking about buy ins, but rather regular in payments. As far as I know, employers won't match buy ins.
It's not so much that employers 'match' contributions, there is a legal requirement for pensions to be paid, it's usually split 50%, however the employer could pay 100%
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  #40  
Old 05.01.2015, 21:08
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Re: Pension Second Pillar contributions

I'm starting a new job. From what I can see the employee (me) has no contributions thus allowing the employer to pay the minimum legal of 3,500

So if I said I want to pay 6k for example per year in monthly payments. This I gather would need the company to match it. Can the company deny me this possibility and keep to the bare legal minimum? Or would they have to accept my payment and accept to match it?
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