BBuser: 0
Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Food and drink
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02.08.2007, 16:20
sharon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 439
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts
sharon has made some interesting contributions
Baking at high altitude?

OK - both my friend and I have tried to make desserts in Klosters - pavlova & souffle - however neither of us has been able to get these to work as no matter what the egg whites won't get fluffy... I take it this is to do with the altitude - is there anything you can do to get around this - appart from make flat cakes?

What else does altiude affect? I suppose I should be careful asking this question....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank sharon for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 02.08.2007, 16:24
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,575
Groaned at 149 Times in 103 Posts
Thanked 6,931 Times in 3,001 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Opening carbonated beverages at altitude can be fun. Boom!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02.08.2007, 16:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Appenzell
Posts: 5,896
Groaned at 108 Times in 94 Posts
Thanked 2,195 Times in 1,317 Posts
DaveA has an excellent reputationDaveA has an excellent reputationDaveA has an excellent reputationDaveA has an excellent reputation
Re: Baking at high altitude?

A really interesting question, and one I had never really thought about... but look here for some guidance.

dave



Quote:
View Post
OK - both my friend and I have tried to make desserts in Klosters - pavlova & souffle - however neither of us has been able to get these to work as no matter what the egg whites won't get fluffy... I take it this is to do with the altitude - is there anything you can do to get around this - appart from make flat cakes?

What else does altiude affect? I suppose I should be careful asking this question....
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank DaveA for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 02.08.2007, 16:25
sharon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 439
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts
sharon has made some interesting contributions
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Oh well have to stick to wine then...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02.08.2007, 22:06
argus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Zug canton (calmly in Cham)
Posts: 3,390
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 2,483 Times in 1,202 Posts
argus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Hey, Sharon, thanks for bringing up this interesting & fascinating topic. Never knew this problem/challenge existed.

Thought I just felt a bit ill at high altitudes. Must've been my buns deflating.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03.08.2007, 09:30
sharon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 439
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts
sharon has made some interesting contributions
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Hi Argus

I saw that you have a cookery blog spot - do you have a good recipe for dhal using ingredients you can buy in Switzerland?

S
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03.08.2007, 09:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ch
Posts: 2,764
Groaned at 38 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,623 Times in 836 Posts
gooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

If you're trying to make souffles and pavlovas, and I assume both of the sweet variety then it's the egg white, which you only stand to over-beat at high altitude.

Try using Italian meringue, which is stable.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03.08.2007, 09:41
sharon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 439
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts
sharon has made some interesting contributions
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Yes - it was the egg white which wouldn't rise

how do I make Italian ones? How are they different to what I'd call normal ones?

S
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03.08.2007, 10:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ch
Posts: 2,764
Groaned at 38 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,623 Times in 836 Posts
gooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Italian meringue is made by slowly pouring melted sugar (120 degrees Celsius) into whipping whites. This cooks the whites and creates a stable meringue that is nice and glossy. It is stable in that it can be kept in a container in the fridge and does not deflate the way regular meringue would.

Italian meringue is in the arsenal of every pastry chef, it's like cement. It can be baked like an armadillo (soft on the inside, crunchy on the outside) for lemon meringue pie, or crunchy meringues as in for a pavlova or poached. It's great in soufflés, creme pat's etc.

If you are into baking, I recommend learning how to make it.

When dealing with egg whites, use CLEAN and DRY utensils. Glass and metal bowls are preferable to plastic. Room temperature egg whites are better than cold egg whites, run them under tepid water for a few minutes if they are cold. Keep all impurities (like yolk) out of the whites.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank gooner for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 03.08.2007, 10:24
sharon's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kilchberg
Posts: 439
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 95 Times in 67 Posts
sharon has made some interesting contributions
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Thanks - will get a thermometer when I'm out and try this - should you add it slowly while whisking the egg whites?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03.08.2007, 10:45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 301
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
blueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthyblueshrimp is considered unworthy
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Hmm...engineer's perspective here (I don't cook much, but can offer some insight into the physics).

I would suggest beating the egg whites less.

Here's what I think is happening (I could be wrong, but it sounds reasonable physics-wise, so it doesn't hurt to try): When you beat the egg whites, you trap air in them. When you bake something with "fluffed" egg whites, you heat the air in the whites, causing it to expand, therefore causing the surrounding material (i.e. your souffle) to rise. As the surrounding material of your souffle cooks, it retains the "puffed up" shape.

At higher altitudes, there is lower air pressure, so it is easier for warm air to expand (i.e. it expands faster). What may be possibly happening is that your fluffy egg whites contain so much air, and the air bubbles expand so fast, that the air simply escapes (i.e. the air bubbles "burst") your souffle before the surrounding material can cook to trap the expanding air inside. Result: your souffle cooks but doesn't "rise".

If you beat your egg whites less, you trap less air in it, so that you have fewer expanding air bubbles to contend with, so that the surrounding material of souffle can do a better job of trapping the air that is trying to escape. In other words, "the batter wins the battle"! Result: your souffle "rises".

If you do try this experiment I would be extremely interested in the results. Scientific curiosity, you see.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank blueshrimp for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 03.08.2007, 10:49
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,575
Groaned at 149 Times in 103 Posts
Thanked 6,931 Times in 3,001 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Cooking? Engineers? http://www.cookingforengineers.com/
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 03.08.2007, 11:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ch
Posts: 2,764
Groaned at 38 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,623 Times in 836 Posts
gooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond reputegooner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks - will get a thermometer when I'm out and try this - should you add it slowly while whisking the egg whites?
1-1/3 cups sugar + 1/2 cup water
bring to simmer and boil to soft-crack

whip 4-5 egg whites on medium speed until they begin to foam, add a pinch of salt and a 1/4 teaspoon on Cream of tartar. Turn to full speed and whip to soft peaks.

Turn to medium and slowly pour the syrup into the whites, in a steady stream (avoiding the whisks) - speed up to fast and whip out until glossy stiff peaks.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03.08.2007, 11:17
Brianb_ie's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 623
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 121 Times in 87 Posts
Brianb_ie has earned the respect of manyBrianb_ie has earned the respect of manyBrianb_ie has earned the respect of many
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks Uncle Max. this looks it has some great recipes. The chicken pot pie looks delicious.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03.08.2007, 11:43
argus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Zug canton (calmly in Cham)
Posts: 3,390
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 2,483 Times in 1,202 Posts
argus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Quote:
View Post
Hi Argus

I saw that you have a cookery blog spot - do you have a good recipe for dhal using ingredients you can buy in Switzerland?

S
Hi, Sharon. Thanks for taking a peek at it. It's not solely cookery; it's a mish-mash. I write about life in Switzerland, books, dogs, and lake bird watching as well.

When I needed a sort of dhal curry to go with roti canai (paratha) or basmati rice, I did the following:


Emergency Dhal Curry in der Schweiz

half cup of lentils, pre-soaked for half an hour in water
2 1/2 tablespoons vegetable oil
half a sliced big onion
1 1/2 tsp curry powder (a bit more if you like it spicier)
1/2 tsp turmeric powder (optional, not sure if it can be found here)
4 cloves garlic, chopped
2cm of ginger, chopped finely (sub with ginger powder if you prefer)
1/4 tsp coriander powder (optional)
3/4 tsp parsley, chopped (fresh or dried)
a few pieces of star anise, cloves (sub with a small piece of cinnamon)
1 teaspoon vegetable stock powder (Gemuese Extrakt)
1 1/2 cups water
1 zucchini, cut into longish pieces about 0.5cm x 0.3cm x 3cm
3 tbs coconut cream (optional)
sea salt & pepper

Heat oil in a medium saucepan or pot till a small piece of onion sizzles in it. Stir-fry onion and garlic in the oil. Keep it on medium heat.
Add the curry powder, ginger, turmeric, coriander and pieces of spice. Stir-fry for 30 seconds.
Add lentils, water and veggie stock. Bring to boil and turn heat back to medium. Cook for 3 minutes.
Add zucchini and cook for another 3 minutes.
Add coconut cream and parsley, and salt and pepper to taste. One more minute and you're done.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03.08.2007, 13:03
jemma's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 569
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 231 Times in 114 Posts
jemma has a reputation beyond reputejemma has a reputation beyond reputejemma has a reputation beyond reputejemma has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

So does anyone have any suggestions for brownie baking?

I tried baking a batch of chocolate brownies last week and I can't seem to get them to cook evenly. The outside bits were perfect but the middle was still runny OK i know brownies should be moist but there was def something amiss??

The recipe has worked before in England so I'm not sure where I went wrong. I followed recipe and cooking times and took them out of the oven when the top was cracked and firm but the middle was still slightly soft and for some reason they didn't seem to firm up and carry on cooking as they cooled. Am wondering if maybe its something to do with having a fan assisted oven and them baking too quickly around the edges?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03.08.2007, 13:20
Colonelboris's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 1,138
Groaned at 23 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,273 Times in 671 Posts
Blog Entries: 2
Colonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond reputeColonelboris has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

I'd say you're right. Reduce the temperature by 20 C when using a fan-assited oven and see how they go then.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Colonelboris for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 03.08.2007, 13:21
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,575
Groaned at 149 Times in 103 Posts
Thanked 6,931 Times in 3,001 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

As with homemade Pizza, baste the edges with a little water to slow the baking process on the most exposed parts. Then bring me some
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03.08.2007, 14:17
argus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Zug canton (calmly in Cham)
Posts: 3,390
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 2,483 Times in 1,202 Posts
argus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Quote:
View Post
So does anyone have any suggestions for brownie baking?

I tried baking a batch of chocolate brownies last week and I can't seem to get them to cook evenly. The outside bits were perfect but the middle was still runny OK i know brownies should be moist but there was def something amiss??

The recipe has worked before in England so I'm not sure where I went wrong. I followed recipe and cooking times and took them out of the oven when the top was cracked and firm but the middle was still slightly soft and for some reason they didn't seem to firm up and carry on cooking as they cooled. Am wondering if maybe its something to do with having a fan assisted oven and them baking too quickly around the edges?

(Yes, 20 degrees C less -- if you're using the fan-assist mode.)

I adjusted a recipe from good ol' Mr Jamie Oliver and I've pictures and explanations here:

http://argusworld.blogspot.com/2007/...brilliant.html


A friend tried it out; she and her children loved it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank argus for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 03.08.2007, 14:59
jemma's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 569
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 231 Times in 114 Posts
jemma has a reputation beyond reputejemma has a reputation beyond reputejemma has a reputation beyond reputejemma has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baking at high altitude?

Quote:
View Post
As with homemade Pizza, baste the edges with a little water to slow the baking process on the most exposed parts. Then bring me some
Not sure when I'll be baking the next batch so in the meantime heres the recipe kindly copied out from the Green and Blacks chocolate cookbook by my friend.

Celebration Brownies!

bits you need:

200g unsalted butter
100g dark choc -min 60% cocoa solids-broken up
350g dark soft brown sugar
4 large eggs
1 teaspoon vanilla extract (DONT USE FLAVOURING!!)
200g self raising flour (or make from 200g plain flour + 1 tsp baking powder)
pinch of salt
280g box of celebrations - or Malteasers or mint choc thins
baking tin 11x7inch/ 28x18cm


preheat oven to 180C/350F/gas mark 4

brush tin with melted butter & line with greaseproof paper

melt butter & choc in "heatproof" bowl suspended over saucepan of barely simmering water (Don’t over heat chocolate - take your time & take it off the heat!) remove from heat & add sugar

beat eggs & vanilla essence & add to choc mix (make sure its cooled down else choc omelette!) sift the flour into the with the salt

unwrap chocs and pour half of mix into tin & position chocs so that at least one per portion once cut (just fit in as many as you can!) pour in remaining mix and ensure chocs are covered.

bake for approx 25-20 mins until top is crispy & inside soft (let it finish baking in the tin once you have that fab broken top! Don’t be tempted to cook more!)

leave to cool in tin before cutting

EAT!!!!

En Guete!

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
baking altitude, cooking engineer, recipe


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High on a hill was a lonely goatherd.... Lob General off-topic 18 07.09.2011 10:53
Montreux / Vevey cloud layer altitude in winter TSquare Housing in general 13 28.04.2007 09:08
zurich high school akouda Language corner 0 03.04.2007 19:54
Arcade high scores problem DanielL Forum support 10 27.08.2006 16:46


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0