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Old 04.02.2015, 10:07
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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UK has rules against this kind of cruelty too. Despite your initial claims, I think you're showing an awful lot of prejuduce.

He disagrees with your claim that halal meat is not available in Switzerland, when it clearly is.

Ask your local Swiss Pferdmetzgerei about flogging dead horses.
Not been prejudiced at all, in fact I respect other peoples points of view, all I was saying is I think it's cruel and not right to make animals suffer in this way and they DO suffer, I'm entitled to my opinion, so was just trying to work out where and IF the kebab shops are using this kind of meat

That's all
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Old 04.02.2015, 10:30
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Not been prejudiced at all, in fact I respect other peoples points of view, all I was saying is I think it's cruel and not right to make animals suffer in this way and they DO suffer, I'm entitled to my opinion, so was just trying to work out where and IF the kebab shops are using this kind of meat

That's all
The greatest cruelty to animals is the industrialisation and mass production of meat products. People are deluded if they are happy to buy 2 chickens for £5 in Tesco or 10 burgers for 99p in Iceland but avoid halal/kosher for being somehow barbaric

Anyway, I salute your stance on being a vegetarian. That is the most honest thing to be in this debate.
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Old 04.02.2015, 10:33
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Yes!!! I am vegetarian but been for 27 years don't want to preach or force my opinions on anybody else but as all over UK news today was coverage of a vile UK slaughter house with staff kicking punching and stamping on animals faces killing sheep in front of each other it made me sick, then to be killed halal style so with a talk to close meat eating friends and my fiancé I wanted to be a little clearer to see if CH has rules against this kind of cruelty saddens me as slaughter could be done a lot more humane stunning!!!
There are good slaughterhouses and bad ones. Same with halal slaughterhouses. There are good one that respect the animal and make it as stressfree as possible. There are some bad ones, like you heard of who are barbarians. But that has nothing to do with the halal process involve and everything to do with the dickheads who are heartless..

At the end of the day, you can refuse to eat any halal meat and eat meat from a place that have been threaten animals as bad as the one you speak of. So my advice would be to read the labels, find out where the meat is from, where it has been killed and how they proceed. OR, if you find it too much trouble, stop worrying about it, don't ask questions and/or stop eating meat.
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Old 04.02.2015, 10:42
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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The greatest cruelty to animals is the industrialisation and mass production of meat products. People are deluded if they are happy to buy 2 chickens for £5 in Tesco or 10 burgers for 99p in Iceland but avoid halal/kosher for being somehow barbaric
It's all very well saying that from when one earns enough to feed a family on slow reared, organically fed, happy animals. However when the choice is two chickens for a fiver or killing the dog for protein then it's not difficult to see why meat is now produced for the mass market. Just a shame the animals have to suffer.
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Old 04.02.2015, 10:46
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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It's all very well saying that from when one earns enough to feed a family on slow reared, organically fed, happy animals. However when the choice is two chickens for a fiver or killing the dog for protein then it's not difficult to see why meat is now produced for the mass market. Just a shame the animals have to suffer.
Meat is too cheap. People eat far too much of it which is bad for their health*

People eat chicken two or three times a week but it used to be a luxury for the Sunday roast.

*Actually people eat too much of everything.
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Old 04.02.2015, 10:54
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Is it Friday already?
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  #27  
Old 04.02.2015, 11:29
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Actually I am vegetarian, I've been so for 27 years and love the lifestyle but I'm not pushy my daughter eats meat I would NEVER push my views on her my fiancé eats meat and we were just wondering if the Turkish kebab places were using halal as we in particular do not agree with it and would not like to buy in error :-)
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Old 04.02.2015, 11:34
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Is it Friday already?
No, because then we'd be discussing fish farming.
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Old 04.02.2015, 11:36
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Fishy Friday is sooo old fashioned
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  #30  
Old 04.02.2015, 11:36
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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DB, you know very well that slaughtering an animal without stunning is forbidden here. Halal meat has to be imported, usually from France, and I am sure your average Kebab shop will lie to you, but most of them use Swiss meat as the import tax is (I think) CHF 22 per Kilo, and therefore very expensive.

I was trying to spare the OP any bad feelings, she seems to be vegetarian.

To Hayleyjay: much of what you see on the Internet is very old, and even filmed outside Europe, the animal rights people like to bend the facts.

Old thread, but do you remember this witch in Geneva? COW slaughtering APOLOGY

We've had this whole discussion some time ago. Halal meat is available in Switzerland, but the method, although approved by the Islamic foundation, is not acceptable to some Muslim groups or individuals- who then prefer to import from France or Germany. Animals in Switzerland have to be electically stunned before slaughter- that means that the animal is unconscious, but ALIVE at the time of the throat being slit- which is totally in line with Islam. It is very unfortunate that traditionalists will not accept this method, as it would be a really good way to let Muslim people adhere to the letter of the Koran, but without 'cruelty'.

One of the reasons we prefer to buy meat in Switzerland, where YES it is more expensive, is because we know several people who work at the local slaughterhouse, and how strict and respectful they are of the animals on arrival and during the whole process. As Tom1234, I'd rather eat much less meat of much higher quality, from local farmers whose husbandry is excelllent (in general- 1 farmer around here is a bit of a concern)- short transport to local abattoir where animals are inspected to insure their are in good health and clean, and then slaughtered well and with total respect. One of the youngsters here is doing his apprenticeship at the abattoir, and he said his boss would immediately sack anyone who behaves badly towards an animal. This is the first thing they are told, and reminded on a very regular basis.
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  #31  
Old 04.02.2015, 11:41
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Fishy Friday is sooo old fashioned
The Catholic religion may be old but is still very much alive.
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Old 04.02.2015, 11:42
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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The Catholic religion may be old but is still very much alive.
My granny always had fishy Friday she wasn't catholic
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Old 04.02.2015, 11:48
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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My granny always had fishy Friday she wasn't catholic
I'm sure a lot of people on here eat Halal meat and are neither Jewish or Muslim.
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Old 04.02.2015, 12:10
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Re: Halal meat in CH

NotAllThere- old-fashioned stunning with a blow to the head is clearly forbidden in Islam, as it more often than not will kill the animal. So until recently, the option of stunning before slaughter was not acceptable to Muslims, as clearly haram (forbidden). But modern electrical stunning does NOT kill the animal- so ritual slaughter takes place when the animal is alive, as per the demands of the Koran- but without the suffering. A perfectly modern solution, and accepted by many modern Muslims, but, unfortunately, not by traditionalists.
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Old 04.02.2015, 12:10
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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I am saying you are wrong, and you enjoy teasing people. School holidays this week, some extra time on your hands?

Halal slaughter of animals is forbidden here, you know that DB! So why confuse the situation, especially when Hayleyjay is obviously distressed! Yes you can buy imported meat here, that claims to be Halal, but it probably isn't, and dead animals can't talk!

Looking at the history of the horse meat scandals in Europe, and how meat was exported to Rumania and then back to Benelux and sold as beef, you cannot believe anything really.

Except your common sense: you cannot import a ton of meat without it being inspected at the border, and the import duty is over CHF 20 per Kilo, making imported meat expensive. But profit can be made,and untruthful dealers in meat will be sorely tempted to use Swiss meat, adding CHF 20 to every kilo, and claiming it to be Halal. How can an expert tell the difference? They cannot!
.

Sbrinz's argument in a nutshell:


OP: Is the whisky in Wankistan alcoholic?


Sbrinz: No, alcohol is not available in Wankistan.


Everyone else: Sure, alcohol is available.


Sbrinz: As you well know, it isn't allowed to run a distillery in Wankistan.


Everyone else: Yeah, but alcohol is still available.


Sbrinz: Yes, but how can you be sure the whisky is alcoholic? It's very expensive to import alcoholic whisky and these darkies are notorious liars, so the whisky is not alcoholic. You can go ahead and drink as much whisky as you like, OP - you won't get drunk.


Everyone else: Here's a list of alcoholic whiskies in Wankistan.


Sbrinz: blah blah conspiracy theory, Rumanians blah blah blah


Everyone else: I had some alcoholic whisky this morning. It was delicious.


OP: Groan


Sbrinz: DB is a notorious wind-up merchant who eats babies and beats up old ladies for their lunch money. Hey, DB, you're a troll, lol.


Everyone else: Yeah, but, er, there is alcoholic whisky in Wankistan.
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  #36  
Old 04.02.2015, 12:15
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Re: Halal meat in CH

I rest my case.

The OP was obviously upset from the start, and our bully boys have confirmed her worst fears. Thanks guys..
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  #37  
Old 04.02.2015, 12:18
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Re: Halal meat in CH

From the Halal Food Authority:

Q 3. Does Halal Food Authority allow stunning of birds and animals?

A.Yes, however, one has to be reminded that HFA has always maintained "no stunning to kill".


1.Captive Bolt Stunning

proscribed

prohibited


2.Percussion Stunning

proscribed

prohibited
(although above procedures for cattle are allowed by some Ulema's in Africa & Germany)


3.Gas Stunning

proscribed

prohibited
(although Turkish Ulema's have approved this method for pre-slaughtering of chicken)


4.
Halal Food Authority allows controlled electric stun

5.There are two types of electric stunning


a.Stun to Kill


b. Stun to Immobilize only (and not to kill)


Halal Food Authority only allows and approves of “Stun to Immobilize” method. Itis used in the following two forms:


i.Water bath Stun for Poultry


ii.Electric Tong Stun for Ovine meat (end of quote).

Which is how halal meat is slaughtered in Switzerland, but not in France or Germany.


I have to say Sbrinz makes a good point about import tax. How can any butcher here in CH sell traditional (unstunned) meat imported from France or Germany at such prices as they do- when as Sbrinz reminded us, taxes on import as SO HIGH- something does not add up indeed. How can it be cheaper to buy halal meat in Lausanne than in Pontarlier??? Children count as part of the allowance, so a couple with 1 child can bring in 3kg of meat or chicken at a time- and then pay 17CHF per kilo if they want more.

Last edited by Odile; 04.02.2015 at 12:34.
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  #38  
Old 04.02.2015, 12:18
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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To the OP... I have read and also heard from trusted people that the doner kebab shops here in Switzerland do not sell 100% halal meat so be careful. It can have a a bit of pork in it. The shops usually have a sign of halal outside but my friends tells me on enquiring about it from the guys inside they said it is not halal and they had to remove the halal sign from outside. These days you can see many kabab shops without a halal sign on it because they know that people are aware of it now.
Moreover i would advise if halal meat is important to you then buy it from the known sources or trusted people. You may ask a practicing muslim about it.
I think you misunderstood the OP's original questions...
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Old 04.02.2015, 12:26
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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I rest my case.

The OP was obviously upset from the start, and our bully boys have confirmed her worst fears. Thanks guys..

Yeah, because telling outright lies to someone who is worried about the possibility of buying halal meat is sure to make her feel better.


You said:

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Halal meat is available in France, but not here.

This is clearly untrue, and you know it. Why did you persist with this nonsense even after you'd been shown that it was untrue?
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  #40  
Old 04.02.2015, 12:32
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Not been prejudiced at all
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Ok good to know then we can steer away from this kind of slaughtering of animals thanks
You do know what prejudice means, right?

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but you have a clear bias. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't argue you're not prejudiced.
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