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  #61  
Old 04.02.2015, 21:40
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Certainly some high profile cases of people getting caught recently, with up to 100kg of meat- who were then charged with 17CHF per kilo plus large fines on top. So pretty daft, I'd say if the business could import for such a small charge.
Wasn't recently that a lady was caught on the tram in Basel from Weil am Rhein with a huge amount of meat?
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Old 04.02.2015, 22:39
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Yes, 17/kg is for private import, NOT commercial.

Tom


17 KGs means a customs duty of CHF 3.-- which hardly is enormous
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Old 04.02.2015, 22:45
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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They probably need a permit, and were too cheap to pay for it.

Grumpy, how does it work?

Tom

If you on Arrival at the CH border have fresh meat with you --- you have to present the stuff to the veterinary control. And you ought to have an Import licence of the OZD Oberzolldirektion. Costs of the licence is less than CHF 10.-- and so, no problem
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Old 05.02.2015, 09:13
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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17 KGs means a customs duty of CHF 3.-- which hardly is enormous
Yes, but I wrote 17/kg, NOT 17kg.

17kg at 17/kg = CHF 289, NOT CHF 3.

Tom
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:41
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Re: Halal meat in CH

A practical hint to the OP...


Look for this sign (or something similar) on the window of the restaurant or takeaway, or on the packaging of the item you wish to purchase:

This means that the food is halal, and you may therefore wish to avoid it.


Be aware that many meat products are halal even when you wouldn't expect them to be. I wasn't joking when I said that I enjoyed a delicious piece of halal meat for breakfast the other morning. The item was a Jack Link's Beef Snack, imported from New Zealand and marked halal:





En guete!
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  #66  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:52
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Re: Halal meat in CH

However we feel about the issue- it is absolutely WRONG that customers should have halal meat enforced upon them. Like DB's snack above, all halal produce should be clearly labeled as such, both in retail and in restaurants. People should have the choice. Just like they should have the choice to eat pork, or horse, or whatever.
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Old 05.02.2015, 11:24
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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However we feel about the issue- it is absolutely WRONG that customers should have halal meat enforced upon them. Like DB's snack above, all halal produce should be clearly labeled as such, both in retail and in restaurants. People should have the choice. Just like they should have the choice to eat pork, or horse, or whatever.

I agree, and in most cases commercial sense means that halal products are clearly labelled - after all, if you go to the effort of getting your meat approved, why wouldn't you advertise it to the customers who seek such products?


However, it's also up to the customer to apply a bit of common sense. If you're buying kebabs from a Turkish takeaway or fried chicken from a Pakistani takeaway, you'd expect the meat to be halal even if it isn't labelled as such. Same goes for items purchased from a Turkish or Bangladeshi grocery store. If in doubt, one can always ask.


Personally, I'm not bothered whether my meat is halal or kosher or whatever, but having a food intolerance and being strictly teetotal, I understand why others might want to take care with what they buy. Labelling is an important part of the story, but it isn't the whole story. Personal responsibility - including self-education - is a vital component of one's behaviour when it comes to buying food.


I hope this thread has been educational for the OP. It might not consist of the answers she wanted to hear, but tickled ears butter no parsnips.
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  #68  
Old 05.02.2015, 11:50
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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I agree, and in most cases commercial sense means that halal products are clearly labelled - after all, if you go to the effort of getting your meat approved, why wouldn't you advertise it to the customers who seek such products?


However, it's also up to the customer to apply a bit of common sense. If you're buying kebabs from a Turkish takeaway or fried chicken from a Pakistani takeaway, you'd expect the meat to be halal even if it isn't labelled as such. Same goes for items purchased from a Turkish or Bangladeshi grocery store. If in doubt, one can always ask.


Personally, I'm not bothered whether my meat is halal or kosher or whatever, but having a food intolerance and being strictly teetotal, I understand why others might want to take care with what they buy. Labelling is an important part of the story, but it isn't the whole story. Personal responsibility - including self-education - is a vital component of one's behaviour when it comes to buying food.


I hope this thread has been educational for the OP. It might not consist of the answers she wanted to hear, but tickled ears butter no parsnips.
But surely the problem with Halal is that there is no central authority that can place their stamp of approval on it. With all the different branches of Islam, there may even be detail differences in terms of what goes and what doesn't. Halal is not a protected term in the same way that say Demeter or IP-Suisse is. So if you ask the butcher or Kebab man, is this Halal, and he says yes, then that could mean anything from, the white-van-man who sold it to me is a good Muslim and I trust him implicitly and neither require not have any further proof, to this meat comes from an approved supplier who gets regular surprise visits from some approval agency.
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Old 05.02.2015, 11:55
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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However we feel about the issue- it is absolutely WRONG that customers should have halal meat enforced upon them. Like DB's snack above, all halal produce should be clearly labeled as such, both in retail and in restaurants. People should have the choice. Just like they should have the choice to eat pork, or horse, or whatever.
What's "wrong" with Halal meat?

I understand there is a moral issue with people being cruel to animals at certain abattoirs regardless of the customs / religions they adhere to. As for the meat itself there is absolutely nothing wrong with it from a health perspective.

If you think that Halal meat per se is actually cruel to animals then go ahead and boycott it. I personally think this is unnecessary.

Stop forcing your ill informed morals driven by tree hugging propaganda on us.

By the way Halal is just the term used for "permitted" food / actions / contracts under whichever Islamic stream you follow. So I wouldn't completely boycott anything labeled with Halal.

e.g. You would never find fish labeled as Halal because the majority, if not all, of seafood by definition is Halal (i.e. permitted) in almost all of the Islamic streams.

In the same way you would never find Halal pig meat, because pigs are by definition not allowed, in the same way you wouldn't find Halal dog meat, because meat originating from carnivorous animals are by definition not allowed.

You might also find gummy bears / Harribo sweets labelled "Halal", this doesn't mean that the Harribos have been slaughtered according to Islamic rituals but that the sweets are animal gelatine free (usually originating from pigs).

There is also situations where something Halal might become Haram depending on how strictly you want to follow the rules. A juicy piece of Halal beef steak tartar would become Haram if it's dosed in Cognac. (Permitted food + not permitted food => not permitted)

This is all a storm in a teacup to be honest, we've seen these kind of reports before, all that needs to be done is to educate and supervise the people working at abattoirs, I'd go as far as saying giving them psychological support.
It takes a certain kind of mindset to be able to slaughter animals day in and day out, this mindset is far removed from the mainstream and would probably seem cruel by the most majority of people. Imagine waking up every morning knowing that you're gonna slaughter a 100 sheep! Regardless if they are stunned / gassed / drowned / sedated etc

Last edited by The_Love_Doctor; 05.02.2015 at 12:15. Reason: some more examples ha ha
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Old 05.02.2015, 12:22
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Did I say halal meat was 'wrong'- no I did not. Did I talk about an boycott? NO.

All I am saying is:

a/ animal can nowadays be electically stunned and still be halal and approved, so why not?

b/ halal meat should be clearly labeled as such, so that people can make the choice, for whatever reason. It is not up to you to decide and impose how people should or should not, feel about the halal method of slaughter. People should have a clear and informed choice.

Talking to people HERE who work in the LOCAL slaughterhouse- yes, it does make a big difference to them- they could NOT do the job if the animals were not stunned before slaughter. They sleep well at night because they do the job well and with respect. Are you going to decide how they should feel too? What is wrong with being able to make informed choices?
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Old 05.02.2015, 12:32
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Re: Halal meat in CH

We're anyway cruel with the animals we sacrifice for eating..electrocuting, shooting etc are no better than cutting their throat.
And there are many non-religious people who'd rather buy halal meat from a Turkish butcher than the meat you can find in supermarkets.
End of.
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Old 05.02.2015, 12:38
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Did I say halal meat was 'wrong'- no I did not. All I am saying is
You said it's wrong to have halal meat forced upon people. When this is not really the case, because before these reports we haven't seen people complaining about the way Halal meat / Kosher meat (which is slaughtered also without stunning) / game meat (shot dead) or any other kind of meat which comes to existence after the the death of an animal which invariably is not humane enough for certain people.

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a/ meat can be electically stunned and still be halal and approved, so why not?
As far as I know this is not mainstream otherwise all Halal slaughter houses would use it. It's a compromise and as with all compromises it's not the "ideal".

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b/ halal meat should be clearly labeled as such, so that people can make the choice, for whatever reason. It is not up to you to decide and impose how people shouldm or should not, feel about the halal method of slaughter. People should have a clear and informed choice.
By the same logic your imposing choice on people where it's not necessary.
If it's really that bad people would be complaining about it all over. It's clearly just you and a few others that feel this is necessary, for this reason you should find out for yourself whether it's Halal or not. Waste of time if you ask me. Pure Omnivorous Snobbishness in my opinion.

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Talking to people HERE who work in the LOCAL slaughterhouse- yes, it does make a big difference to them- they could NOT do the job if the animals were not stunned before slaughter. Are you going to decide how they should feel too?
I am indifferent to how your local slaughter house should slaughter it's meat produce sources, if they feel it necessary to stun / gas / drown / sedate the animal then so be it. You don't see me asking for meat products to be labeled with the method used to render the animal unconscious so I can make an "informed decision" whether this method is cruel or not.
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Old 05.02.2015, 12:46
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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But surely the problem with Halal is that there is no central authority that can place their stamp of approval on it. With all the different branches of Islam, there may even be detail differences in terms of what goes and what doesn't. Halal is not a protected term in the same way that say Demeter or IP-Suisse is. So if you ask the butcher or Kebab man, is this Halal, and he says yes, then that could mean anything from, the white-van-man who sold it to me is a good Muslim and I trust him implicitly and neither require not have any further proof, to this meat comes from an approved supplier who gets regular surprise visits from some approval agency.
Yeah, but that ain't my problem. If someone is avoiding halal meat, then it simply makes sense to avoid any meat labelled "halal", whether it was bought from a dodgy Frenchman or given as a personal gift from the caliph himself.


The details of what and what isn't strictly halal are entirely the concern of those who observe such dietary rules.
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Old 05.02.2015, 12:50
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Re: Halal meat in CH

By the way, for the information of anyone who isn't a vegan: I've watched hundreds of animals slaughtered (I spent a large part of my youth in and around slaughterhouses) and, whether it is performed with "respect" or not, it is a nasty, cruel business. There is no way round this simple fact.


I'm cool with that, as my nutrition and that of my family comes before the welfare of any dumb animal. Other people may think differently. But let's not be under any illusion that the procedure is not thoroughly revolting.
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Old 05.02.2015, 12:57
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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I'm cool with that, as my nutrition and that of my family comes before the welfare of any dumb animal. Other people may think differently. But let's not be under any illusion that the procedure is not thoroughly revolting.
DB at his best!

You're gonna get yourself in trouble calling animals dumb!
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Old 05.02.2015, 13:21
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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DB at his best!

You're gonna get yourself in trouble calling animals dumb!
Exactly.
Animals are a lot smarter than some EF posters based on the dumb posts we see on here.
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Old 05.02.2015, 13:35
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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DB at his best!

You're gonna get yourself in trouble calling animals dumb!
Surely dumb in this case means "unable to speak for themselves", rather than stupid.
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Old 05.02.2015, 13:37
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Surely dumb in this case means "unable to speak for themselves", rather than stupid.
You're not paying much attention to DB.... it does mean stupid...
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Old 05.02.2015, 13:40
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Yeah, but that ain't my problem. If someone is avoiding halal meat, then it simply makes sense to avoid any meat labelled "halal", whether it was bought from a dodgy Frenchman or given as a personal gift from the caliph himself.


The details of what and what isn't strictly halal are entirely the concern of those who observe such dietary rules.
But then surely it would make more sense to have a "not halal" label?

A "halal" label assures people who want halal that they're getting it. It's not supposed to be a warning sign for those who specifically want to avoid it.
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Old 05.02.2015, 13:43
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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A "halal" label assures people who want halal that they're getting it. It's not supposed to be a warning sign for those who specifically want to avoid it.

True, but an assurance for one person is a warning for another.


There are plenty of members of EF who would take a "Children Welcome Here" sign in a restaurant as a clear instruction to keep away, even though it isn't actually intended for them.
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