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  #101  
Old 08.02.2015, 21:30
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Re: Halal meat in CH

It's not always about you Odile...
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  #102  
Old 08.02.2015, 21:34
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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I intentionally did not post the recent video on the halal butchers in Bradford- because it is disgusting and too graphic- and also because it hopefully does not represent the norm for halal butchery- and was used, perhaps, by some with all the wrong motives or intentions
It was in Thirsk not Bradford but was shocking nevertheless.
Animal aid which has filmed undercover in 10 slaughterhouses ( not all Halal) has said that 9 out of those 10 are breaking animal welfare laws. Not acceptable in my opinion and there need to be funds made available for more inspections.
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  #103  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:01
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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If you go back to earlier threads- I explained that this would not happen here, at our local abattoir in Pont-de-Martel- and 1 of the many reasons why meat is more expensive here- as well executed slaughter with proper and careful stunning 1 animal at a time, does take more time and skill. All slaughter-house staff in Switzerland get proper training via an apprenticeship.
Have you actually seen the slaughtermen doing their job?
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  #104  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:06
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Totally agree BM. But those videos do not belong on the Forum, really. I made the decision not to post for good reasons- and I think it should it should be removed. But the fact is, legislation DOES exist.

Must say I am really pleased I got to know the young guy who is serving his apprenticeship at the local abattoir- and several of the farmers around here- and am very proud of the good husbandry, feeds, welfare, short transport and as humane as poss slaughter, with proper stunning, and animals taken in 1 by 1, with a heavy curtain in between. Of course there is still fear in the animals- and lots of blood and gore- but I am satisfied it is done as 'properly as it can'. And again, these are the reasons Swiss meat is more expensive- but worth every centimes extra. Eat less meat, but better quality is definitely the way to go for us here.

No DB- but I know the animals are taken in 1 by 1 and time taken to apply the stunner properly. Totally aware of the blood and gore, and all the mess. I know those people, but I trust their description of what happens, and their actions. You may well have grown up close to an abattoir in your youth- does not mean it is the same process as here, does it?
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  #105  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:12
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Why don't you ask to go and watch sometime?
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  #106  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:19
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Been thinking about it actually. Might do. However I also like to trust professionals. I have friends who are brain surgeons, but I've never been to watch them perform either.
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  #107  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:25
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Been thinking about it actually. Might do.
You should. I think everyone who eats meat and is concerned about animal welfare should.
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  #108  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:31
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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You should. I think everyone who eats meat and is concerned about animal welfare should.
It's an eye opener that's for sure. It was a long time ago and things have probably changed a bit since then as there was no stunning in those days but I'd imagine that it's essentially the same procedure.
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  #109  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:33
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Re: Halal meat in CH

I've been - a few times.

It's one of those reasons why I think livestock should have a (relatively) pleasant life whilst they are alive - even if it costs the consumer more.
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  #110  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:38
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Thank you Tom, I agree. BM as you say, it was a long time ago, and in a different country with different laws and practises. Proper stunning is the key here, and so is the type of holding pen and the way the animals are introduced into the slaughter corridor.
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  #111  
Old 08.02.2015, 22:41
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Thank you Tom, I agree. BM as you say, it was a long time ago, and in a different country with different laws and practises. Proper stunning is the key here, and so is the type of holding pen and the way the animals are introduced into the slaughter corridor.
I think you should hold judgement until you've seen it for yourself.

I'm looking forward to the rest of this conversation.
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  #112  
Old 09.02.2015, 08:52
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Halal meat in CH

I hate to state the bleedin obvious, but the 'halal' abattoir in Yorkhsire is not even owned or run by Muslims, a fact conveniently missed out by the Daily Heil.
Anyway I concur with what has been said before, day in day out slaughter causes some of these people to become dehumanised to the suffering of animals, it's conveyor belt, mass industrialised slaughter. The fact that they were singing, swearing, talking on their phones whilst slaughtering is probably the only way they can keep hold of their sanity in such an insane environment.
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  #113  
Old 09.02.2015, 09:52
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Thank you Tom, I agree. BM as you say, it was a long time ago, and in a different country with different laws and practises. Proper stunning is the key here, and so is the type of holding pen and the way the animals are introduced into the slaughter corridor.
In some places cows or bigger animals are "gently" shot in the head.
There is no humane way of killing them, halal or not. I tend to believe that halal practices are somehow better than what they do in those industrial abattoirs, maybe I'm wrong.
It is a cruel world out there.
Warning: shocking pictures.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ger-chain.html

Btw, if abattoirs would have glass walls, we'll all become vegetarians. Same for factory farms...

Last edited by greenmount; 09.02.2015 at 10:09.
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  #114  
Old 09.02.2015, 10:19
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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There is no humane way of killing them, halal or not. I tend to believe that halal practices are somehow better than what they do in those industrial abattoirs, maybe I'm wrong.
Would you rather get shot in the head and die instantly or have your throat cut and bleed out over the floor?

Why is it exactly that you think Halal slaughter is kinder?

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Btw, if abattoirs would have glass walls, we'll all become vegetarians. Same for factory farms...
I wouldn't.

That's the U.S. Not generally known for having a pleasant, wholesome food industry.
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  #115  
Old 09.02.2015, 10:30
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Would you rather get shot in the head and die instantly or have your throat cut and bleed out over the floor?

Why is it exactly that you think Halal slaughter is kinder?



I wouldn't.



That's the U.S. Not generally known for having a pleasant, wholesome food industry.
Why do you bring the discussion's level so down? Do you always have to make it so personal Tom?
No, you tell me why stunning (have you ever been electrocuted? I can get personal too) or shooting is better the throat cutting. In animals.
The more things I read here, the more I believe "it's because it's Muslim dam' it!".
I'll get my coat.
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  #116  
Old 09.02.2015, 10:30
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Would you rather get shot in the head and die instantly or have your throat cut and bleed out over the floor?

Why is it exactly that you think it's kinder?.
I'd go for the first option myself. I've never been to a Halal slaughterhouse but in the traditional 'bolt in the head' one I went to the actual killing was over and done with in a few seconds.


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I wouldn't.
Me neither.
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  #117  
Old 09.02.2015, 10:48
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Why do you bring the discussion's level so down? Do you always have to make it so personal Tom?
.
'You' and 'One' are interchangeable in the English language. It wasn't personal.

But let's face it - we're all expressing personal views here (although some feel they are speaking on behalf of others).

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have you ever been electrocuted?
No, because electrocution is death by electric shock so I wouldn't be writing this if I had.

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The more things I read here, the more I believe "it's because it's Muslim dam' it!".
What have Muslims got to do with what I wrote. Halal applies to Jewish slaughter too.
And anyway, I'm not PC enough to feel I can't criticise something because, as you wrote, "Muslims do it".
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  #118  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:09
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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'You' and 'One' are interchangeable in the English language. It wasn't personal. (1)

But let's face it - we're all expressing personal views here (although some feel they are speaking on behalf of others).



No, because electrocution is death by electric shock so I wouldn't be writing this if I had. (2)



What have Muslims got to do with what I wrote. Halal applies to Jewish slaughter too.(3)
And anyway, I'm not PC enough to feel I can't criticise something because, as you wrote, "Muslims do it".
1. No they aren't. 'You' refers to a specific person. 'One' does not.

2. Not true. Hence electric chair is not used as an execution method in most places - it fails, a lot. have you ever seen an animal being electrocuted? I assure you, it is not painless. Imagine every muscle in your body contracting at the same time, so hard that your bones break, your ligaments shatter, your heart basically disintegrates because of the massive amounts of electricity it is exposed to but is unable to handle. Skin actually burns and chars, because of the heat caused by the electric shock. A smell of burned flesh lingers in the air.

I've said before that i have seen different types of slaughter, and I've seen them go well, and when they haven't. My eyes and ears didn't lie to me, and i saw that the animal suffered pain in a minority of both cases, roughly equally (in terms of botched slaughters compared to non-botched slaughters).

When an animal is killed properly in the halal way, the body is (if done properly) almost instantly disconnected from the brain, so pain, if it is felt, is short and intense. But, its bloody and gory. When bolting/electrocution goes well, it is slightly quicker, but i would argue against it being any more humane.

3. No it doesn't, that's Kosher. Similar methodology, but not the same.
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  #119  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:25
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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1. No they aren't. 'You' refers to a specific person. 'One' does not.
It's both singular and plural.

But yes, I'll try and use 'one' from now on to avoid confusing you (singular).


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2. Not true. Hence electric chair is not used as an execution method in most places - it fails, a lot. have you ever seen an animal being electrocuted? I assure you, it is not painless. Imagine every muscle in your body contracting at the same time, so hard that your bones break, your ligaments shatter, your heart basically disintegrates because of the massive amounts of electricity it is exposed to but is unable to handle. Skin actually burns and chars, because of the heat caused by the electric shock. A smell of burned flesh lingers in the air.
Are you (singular) getting another word definition confused?

Electrocution is death by electric shock. Otherwise it's just an electric shock.

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3. No it doesn't, that's Kosher. Similar methodology, but not the same.
If Kosher and Halal methods of death were a lot better for animal welfare than why aren't they used exclusively in EU slaughter houses and why aren't laws created to make this so?

You do understand the origins of Halal and Kosher, don't you (singular)?
I did explain it in an earlier post. It had nothing to do with religion but more to do with food hygiene principles of the time.
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  #120  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:39
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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In the UK, around 50% of meat sold in supermarket and in restaurants, catering, is now halal. And I can assure you there are 1000s of people who are saying that proper labelling should be a legal obligation. An MP has recently tried to get a motion through to enforce this- but Cameron and co defeated it- as halal meat is indeed big business. A significant % of the population is really upset about this, and are now pushing for the change.
Care to share your sources for the 50% statistic?

I'm willing to make a wager of your choice that this number is a lot less or at least misleading.
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