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  #121  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:47
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Well, that's a coincidence! I opened up a copy of the Glarner Luegner a few minutes ago to find an interview with a local slaughterman. It turns out our Swiss correspondents are absolutely right - slaughtering is more humane in Switzerland than anywhere else in the world.


GL: Mr Rhyner - may I call you Fridolin? - tell me about your slaughterhouse.


FR: Certainly you may. Yes, our slaughterhouse is the finest slaughterhouse this side of the Linth! We are famous from Ziegelbruecke to Linthal for the quality of our excellent slaughterhouse. That is why our meat is so expensive, because we are so excellent.


GL: Do you take animal welfare seriously?


FR: Of course we do! What do you think we are? Turks? Ha ha. No, our animals are treated very well. A week before their slaughter we book them into a wellness spa to encourage them to relax, where they are given daily hot stone massages and grass smoothies. Then, on the day of their slaughter, we bring them to the slaughterhouse in a specially adapted limousine, one by one. They love it - they feel like film stars!


GL: What happens when they arrive at the slaughterhouse?


FR: Well, first of all, we prefer to call it our "Paradise Suite". The animals are welcomed into the antechamber where they are washed in aromatic oils (the schabziger oil is especially popular) and rubbed down with a specially prepared rough cloth. Then we trim their horns and hooves and offer them a choice of pretty lipsticks. Finally we lead them gently into the Paradise Suite where they are invited to join their ancestors in transcendent ecstasy.


GL: What happens then?


FR: Well, we blow a captive bolt through their skulls or fry their brains with electrodes, slit their throats and hang them upside down to let the blood drain out. They love it!


GL: I bet they do. Thank you for sharing the secrets of your profession with us, Fridolin.


FR: You're welcome. Did you know I used to be a brain surgeon?
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  #122  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:53
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Odile: Here is a more balanced article in my opinion giving FAQs about Halal meat in the UK. (Independent News Article)

Interesting to know that, according to the article, 90% of Halal meat produced in the UK is actually pre-stunned, so your fears and outrage is rather unjustified.

If the labeling would make you feel any better then I hope that something gets done. I'm pretty sure Muslims and Jews alike would like to know whether the animals have been pre-stunned too.
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  #123  
Old 09.02.2015, 14:04
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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It's both singular and plural.

But yes, I'll try and use 'one' from now on to avoid confusing you (singular).




Are you (singular) getting another word definition confused?

Electrocution is death by electric shock. Otherwise it's just an electric shock.



If Kosher and Halal methods of death were a lot better for animal welfare than why aren't they used exclusively in EU slaughter houses and why aren't laws created to make this so?

You do understand the origins of Halal and Kosher, don't you (singular)?
I did explain it in an earlier post. It had nothing to do with religion but more to do with food hygiene principles of the time.
Your correct use of the English language will be appreciated by all, i'm sure.

'Electric shock' is a noun (context: 'the electric shock was too much for the poor calf to bear').

'Electrocution' comes from 'electrocute' which is a verb ('to electrocute'). 'Electrocution' describes the verb version of the word taking place (context: to electrocute the calf = the calf suffered electrocution).

Just like strangulation does not necessarily mean death, so electrocution does not necessarily mean the removal of said calf from the mortal coil. Unless you put 'to death' after the verb (context: 'electrocuted to death' or 'strangled to death'), it just means it took place, not what extent it took place to.

To electrocute, means to be subject to an electric shock. Thus, electrocution must mean suffering an electric shock, but does not necessarily mean being killed via electrocution.

mmmkay?

I assume the presence of a rabbi/utterance of the name of god, mandatory requirements for the slaughter to be considered kosher or halal respectively, is due to their long robes usually giving the floor a good solid sweep on the way out, or because said utterances possess antibacterial properties, therefore cleaning the place up a bit for the next cow? There is more than just food hygiene principles in play when you're talking about the origins of either method.
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  #124  
Old 09.02.2015, 14:30
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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'Electric shock' is a noun (context: 'the electric shock was too much for the poor calf to bear').

'Electrocution' comes from 'electrocute' which is a verb ('to electrocute'). 'Electrocution' describes the verb version of the word taking place (context: to electrocute the calf = the calf suffered electrocution).

Just like strangulation does not necessarily mean death, so electrocution does not necessarily mean the removal of said calf from the mortal coil. Unless you put 'to death' after the verb (context: 'electrocuted to death' or 'strangled to death'), it just means it took place, not what extent it took place to.

To electrocute, means to be subject to an electric shock. Thus, electrocution must mean suffering an electric shock, but does not necessarily mean being killed via electrocution.

mmmkay?

.
Look at it this way:

OK

Death by strangulation. He was strangled to death.

He was being strangled but managed to free himself.

Death by electric shock. He was electrocuted.

He suffered an electric shock. It was just a mild tingle in his hand but shocking all the same.

Not OK

He was electrocuted and afterwards went home to a nice cup of tea.



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I assume the presence of a rabbi/utterance of the name of god, mandatory requirements for the slaughter to be considered kosher or halal respectively, is due to their long robes usually giving the floor a good solid sweep on the way out, or because said utterances possess antibacterial properties, therefore cleaning the place up a bit for the next cow? There is more than just food hygiene principles in play when you're talking about the origins of either method.
There was a time before Rabbis and Mullahs where people managed to survive.

But they probably observed that a lot of people got sick eating shellfish (it's difficult to tell whether it's fresh or not - especially without fridges).
Strike that from the menu.

Some got parasitic worms from eating under cooked pork.
Strike that from the menu.

People got ill eating rotten lamb.
Strike that from the menu unless it's just been freshly killed.

Wow - good practices. Let's write them down and tell this to the people - via the preachers (who were also the teachers at the time).

Of course you could believe these sensible health practices arrived via a message from a god if you so wish.
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  #125  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:13
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Oddly, my two dictionaries (Chambers and Oxford) differ in their definition.

Electrocute
Oxford:
Injure or kill by electric shock

Chambers:
1. To inflict a death penalty by electrocution (which seems a bit self-referential, as 'electrocution' is defined as the noun for 'electrocute')
2. To kill by electricity

Both have 'electrocution' as a derivative of 'electrocute' with no further comment.



Personally, I'd go with Chambers. If I was told someone had been electrocuted, I'd expect them to be dead. In the same way I wouldn't expect a slight execution.
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  #126  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:17
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Re: Halal meat in CH

The prison executioner sounded awfully posh. He went to electrocution lessons.
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  #127  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:46
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Re: Halal meat in CH

I thought an electrocute was a cuddly electron.
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  #128  
Old 09.02.2015, 16:30
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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Look at it this way:

OK

Death by strangulation. He was strangled to death.

He was being strangled but managed to free himself.

Death by electric shock. He was electrocuted.

He suffered an electric shock. It was just a mild tingle in his hand but shocking all the same.

Not OK

He was electrocuted and afterwards went home to a nice cup of tea.

There was a time before Rabbis and Mullahs where people managed to survive.

But they probably observed that a lot of people got sick eating shellfish (it's difficult to tell whether it's fresh or not - especially without fridges).
Strike that from the menu.

Some got parasitic worms from eating under cooked pork.
Strike that from the menu.

People got ill eating rotten lamb.
Strike that from the menu unless it's just been freshly killed.

Wow - good practices. Let's write them down and tell this to the people - via the preachers (who were also the teachers at the time).

Of course you could believe these sensible health practices arrived via a message from a god if you so wish.
1. You may or may not be right about electrocution. Fair enough. I'm inclined to go with the Oxford dictionary meaning, but who am i to argue with Chambers.

2. All those factors you mention were probably true at the time the kosher/halal methods came to the fore which meant that the population was more accepting of them. The chief difference between halal/non halal, or kosher/non kosher meat of the day was the involvement of the big man upstairs. That difference was and is key. A cow slaughtered in the kosher method but without the involvement of the G man is not considered Kosher, in much the same way that a cow slaughtered in the halal method, but without the prayer is not halal. You don't seem to be grasping this basic fact.

Both method are more then just 'slice them here like this'.

There you go with the 'you' again
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  #129  
Old 09.02.2015, 16:42
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Re: Halal meat in CH

Fridolin, DB- should have said before. I know him- he is a Valaisan from Val d'Hérens and not from Glanerland! But his reputation goes far and wide- and is tells a lot of 'porkies'- oh and he looks after his cows 'very well' - makes the meat tastier he says
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  #130  
Old 09.02.2015, 16:46
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Re: Halal meat in CH

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A cow slaughtered in the kosher method but without the involvement of the G man is not considered Kosher
It's a nice little earner. We once had to have a big ugly chemical plant blessed by a rabbi because one of the chemicals it made was a thickner in some kosher product or other.

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There you go with the 'you' again
To be fair, using "you" as a general pronoun is pretty universal. If I started using "one" in my local pub, I'd probably get a smack round the head for being a tosser.
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