I'm a big fan of baking with buttermilk, but the buttermilk I've found here is thin and sort of a weird tan shade. I'm used to a more thick, creamy variety. I sometimes take regular milk and add lemon or vinegar and that seems to work ok, but I was wondering if any of you have resources for a thick and creamy version of buttermilk.

Also, in the US I would buy cake flour, which is regular flour with cornstarch in it, I believe. What do some of you use for cake flour? I'm really wanting to make an angel food cake which involves a boatload of eggwhites, sugar and cake flour.

Thanks...

For cake flour I just buy the flour from the coop with a picture of a cake on it works well for me.

Where do you buy the cornstarch in CH? What is it called in German, please?

Stärke I think...and you can find it in Coop or Denner. No, I think it is Maisstärke.

What I learned while on KP in the Navy: cake flour is a lower protein flour (about half the protein) of bread flour. When bread dough is kneaded, the protein or gluten is worked and gets stretchy and rubbery - thus the reason a good baguette is crusty and is chewy. Obvioulsly, you don't want chewy cakes - so cake flour is lower in protein, and you mix it less. It has something to do with the type of wheat, but I'm not sure exactly what. All purpose flour is a mix of bread and cake flour.

I brought a couple tubs of powered buttermilk from the US when we moved. I like that the best, I just add the power to the other flour stuff and add water to the liquids.

But, I've used the milk+vinegar for some of the recipes I have (some specifically call for you to sour the milk, not use buttermilk).

I took a look at my joy of cooking from 1975 (huh, didn't realize it was that old!). There they say to substitute it with yogurt (1c buttermilk = 1c yogurt). For 1c cake flour, it says you can use 7/8c sifted all purpose flour or 1c less 2T. But I think someone mentioned that Coop has cake flour. So far, I've just avoided recipes that called for cake flour, I still haven't made it to Coop by us to see if they have the cake flour.

From the Baking Ingredients thread (post #18 - don't know how to link to that one in the thread)
For recipes calling for cake flour, sift together (for 1 cup):
1 cup, minus 2 Tbsps, all-purpose flour
2 Tbsps. cornstarch (corn*flour)

Also, someone went through and compared all the kinds of flour on their blog. I used this info when we first got here so I could kind of figure out the types.

Why not get a German recipe book? That way you learn German and will be sure to have ingredients that you'll have no problems finding in your local Migros. Which btw is where you'll find your Buttermilk and flour and starch and....

I can find flour and starch and buttermilk in my local coop. Although I have not seen cake flour, or a box of flour with a cake on it. If you read my initial question, I asked if there was something other than the thin, brownish buttermilk that seems to be in the coop. It doesn't work. And flour is different here than it is in the US, so I wondered what substitutes people use. It's more a question of method than translation. But perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

And truth be told, just looking the stuff up online gives the translation.

But thanks for taking the time to answer.

Which would be solved if you got a German cook-book.

You can make your own buttermilk. Just google it.

Yep, that's what I've been doing. The results are ok....

Apparently, it's how they actually make it anyway. So it's a matter of finding the right recipe or technique. I've seen substitution formulas with some acid only (vinegar/lemon juice) and some with acid and cream of tartar. Perhaps a different recipe is in order?

Because food culture can extend beyond apples and pork.

Try going to a reformhaus and buying the buttermilk there...mostly, you will find this buttermilk very rich and creamy...perhaps that will help with your recipe. You could also just use the 'thin' buttermilk from Coop and whisk in some creme fraiche (available at coop or migros) or full cream quark until you reach a consistency that is satisfactory to your needs...

In most cases, you can substitute cake flour in Switzerland with regular 'zopfmehl' which is milled finer than the regular flour here. Add some corn starch to the flour and make sure you do not over mix your batter...mixing flour and moisture together develops gluten - too much mixing and you will have a heavy batter.

Hope this all helps...

Thanks Jack, that's what I needed to know about the buttermilk.

I also bought something called epifin in the coop - I think that might be cake flour. It had a cake on the box.

Look at the ingredients...I'm sure you will find yeast, sugar, palm oil and other non-healthy items mixed-in with the flour... I would seriously stick with normal flour or zopfmehl...look at the nutritional information. Gluten amounts are usually relative to the protein amount (Eiweiss in German)...Cake flour is usually around 6-8%...white flours here are around 10% and zopfmehl is usually between 11-12%...I've had a lot of success baking with either one...especially if adding 1-2 spoons of corn starch...

Good luck

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the corn starch does?

Thanks Jack. And the Epifin has no ingredient information on it, so I'll just use regular flour and corn starch.

Edot, I found Kuchenmehl (cake flour) in Denner. It made quite a light and fluffy cake.

Cookbook author Alphons Schubeck has some varied, interesting and delicious recipes. I wouldn't say German cuisine is limited to what you say it is.