Care to explain?

Fantastic news, division 3 it is.

Now watch the SPL crumble, you reap what you sow.

This could be the best thing ever to happen to Scottish football. Clubs will be forced to rein in their spending, and start giving a fair go to local youngsters instead of importing in ready made players from all over the globe.

Who knows, in 10 years time, Scotland might even qualify for a tournament again, that would be nice.

I think because every other club that has liquidated has had exactly the same punishment, i.e. reapply to the SFL and start from 3rd division, but Rangers fans seem to think they should be exempt from the rules.

Exactly but it is also the fairest decision for Rangers and the SFL teams agreed with this rather than the corrupt SPL who wanted us in the 1st division to suit themselves.
It will hopefully pave the way for the end to the corrupt SPL.
The problem is you will more than likely see other clubs in the SPL hit badly with the lack of income from Rangers, including Celtic.

But this is actually a blessing in disguise - badly run clubs are going to go bust, there are several in the SPL alone who will probably go tits up.

Those that have cut their cloth accordingly will survive albeit with much tighter belts.

This will necessitate the scouting of cheap local talent, who they can train up and sell abroad (also a GREAT thing for player education, one of England's main problems is how few of their players play outside England)...in the middle-long term, this is going to make the Scottish National Team far stronger and the league run in a far more sensible and equitable manner.

I'm sure it will help with attendances too, as it will be like going back to the old days where you go down to your local club and get to see your mate John's lad playing for the side, who wouldn't be proud to support their local community like that?

You're probably not an avid football fan. Its not really news the hatred between Celtic and Rangers and what its based on. Sad but true. Of course its not all but enough on each side to keep the hatred alive.

Actually no, Gretna were thrown out of the SFL altogether.
Does Newco Rangers have three years of audited accounts (a pre-requisite to be allowed into the SFL)? Nope.
Has Mr. Green explained who his backers are, ie where the money is coming from? Nope.
Spartans will be furious.

But from a commercial point of view, it's a disaster for other SPL clubs. Including Celtic, who actually were one of the Clubs that didn't vote against Newco Rangers to join the SPL.

Clubs going bust is never good for the fans involved.

I dont buy the argument that too many foreigners weaken the national side, you hear the same argument about the EPL and England.

Playing with the best can only bring the quality of yourself/ the local talent up. Scotland / England problems lie in youth development and the type of football they are taught. Scotland may also be suffering from a numbers game with a lot of young players turning towards rugby.

The SPL was already a very weak league (look at the recent results in Europe) and this will not make it stronger (not commenting on the validity of the decision just saying the result of). The EPL has been the strongest league in the last decade looking at Champions League results and England have been woeful internationally.

As a Scottish Arsenal fan, I am being a bit hypocritical here, but there does seem to be a correlation of % of players from that country playing in the top league, and ability of the national team - see Spain, Italy and Germany, all have a far higher %age of nationals in their top tier teams. Maybe a coincidence, but I doubt it.

The England thing sort of proves it though, the top teams there do very well in the Champions League, whereas England do relatively poorly in international tournaments. Why? I'd say from the CL teams in England, you could just about form an England team from them, whereas the entire Spanish first team plays for Real / Barca and comprises the majority of their respective teams.

Short term, of course, the SPL teams will be weakened, and no one likes to see their clubs struggling, but that is the price that will have to be paid for decades of mis-management. Let's wipe the slate clean and start again with a proper plan to help Scottish football and the national team.

Rangers were also thrown out of the league altogether. A new team, newco Rangers or whatever they will be called has applied to enter the league, and has been accepted by the SFL. Gretna COULD have done the same, but decided to apply to the East of Scotland league, where they were accepted.

As for Spartans, they applied, like New Rangers just did for a spare spot in the 3rd division after Gretna folded, and lost out in their bid to Annan, all above board, you can't accept more teams than you have places for.

I presume several clubs could have applied to be allowed into D3 this year, but, the reality is, none of them have the support, stadium, or facilities of New Rangers, so however much you dislike New Rangers (and believe me, I have zero time for them), they are clearly the most suitable club to be allowed into the SFL. I don't see what the complaint you have is. I'm not sure how a new company is meant to have 3 years of accounts either, so I am presuming that is why this has been waived.

They did vote against it.


For me Scotland should comparable to Switzerland when it comes to football I found this link

Scotland has 111k registered football players. Switzerland twice as much. But Scotland still has more players than Croatia and Romania. Looking down the list Bulgaria only have 50k players. World number 2 Uruguay have just 22k registered players so there's not necessarily a link between amount of players and quality of the national team.

As I've compared Switzerland to Scotland I wondered the finances of Scotlands two champions looked like. A year ago Celtic had revenues of £52 mio. which is according to xe CHF79 mio. This dispite a fall of £9 mio. Basel received in 2010 just over £57 mio. in income

There's no reason why Scottish and Swiss football shouldn't be on a level playing field but last year even Sion were more than a match for Celtic. It's obvious that scottish football is in dire shape and if this gives it the necessary shake up it needs than so be it.

I don't think it's a coincidence either that FC Basel's rise internationally has also been Switerland's most successful period including in youth football.

I think Scotland needs to follow the Swiss lead in giving the youth excellent training and scottish teams need to aim to be a springboard to bigger european leagues and then make a big profit on sales rather than just buying trash from the english 1st and 2nd division.

Celtic is starting to go that way but there's still a lot of work to be done.

England do "relatively" poorly. They are pants.

English footballers are carried by their silker international counterparts. There are very few EPL teams with a real English core of players. There are some with a UK core, the point being that these Welsh/Scottish and Irish players are the best on offer, so count as "international talent".

Take the internationals out, and you get the type of team that over the full 90 minutes:

• cannot pass
• cannot receive a pass
• cannot hold the ball
• don't move to create space
• cannot defend with less than 10 players in a demonstration of pure "backs against the wall" desperation
• cannot beat anyone remotely decent, with the exception of the odd upset
• cannot apply pressure slowly, but have to go at it hammer and tongs
• cannot do anything other than the laddish "they don't like it up-em" aggression

Anyone who doesn't agree, was clearly watching another team at the Euros.

I actually think he was implying my previous post was wrong somehow which it wasn't.

However to your point, Not all clubs have been demoted, Motherwell and Dundee to name two.
If you look at the punishments dealt out in the past and what Rangers could have received through sanctions if we had stayed in the SPL or moved to Div 1 then it would have been extremely unfair in fact you could even go as far as to say it was corrupt.
Rangers were deducted points and given a fine as soon as we entered administration, which was inline with past teams in administration so why did the club need to be punished anymore, i.e. ban from Europe, transfer embargo, further points deductions etc?
HMRC and Ticketus the two main creditors have said they will go after Craig Whyte and David Murray who were the company owners, so why punish the club more?

The move to the 3rd is best for Rangers and Scottish football, outwith the SPL, and to be honest the way the majority of the teams have behaved during this mess has been nothing short of disgusting therefore I hope they get what they deserve.
What the SPL wanted was Rangers in the SPL/ Div 1 to ensure they kept the money made from Rangers and the TV deal with SKY whilst punishing Rangers to ensure we won nothing, now to me that is corrupt.
Thankfully the majority of the SFL teams do have sporting integrity, unlike the SPL and the majority of its teams who could not even spell it.

I think we can all agree England and Scotland are both pants internationally. All of the above I also agree with.

But I disagree that taking all the foreigners out of the SPL or EPL will improve the national sides (which I think is where StirB and I disagree). Actually the opposite. There would be more English/ Scots in each league but the best of each will then be deemed great at the local level and no change will happen to the way youth is developed and the failure will continue. The EPL sides would start to fail in Europe and the 4 team allocation would eventually go down.

Spain and Germany have very good records at youth level. I think that rather than the amount of nationals in the league is why they are successful. Its the way they are taught from a very young age that brings technically better players to the international stage.

As for the SPL what will really hurt is what if anything will be the change to the contracts for Television rights. The few fixtures per year drawing a bigger crowd of Rangers fans will have an impact but not that great. The question is what is the interest in a league that is so biased in favour of one side? Its not a strong/ interesting league internationally already so how many Scots will lose interest?

I've no real affection for Rangers in anyway ( Mrs Scotney does - but my loyalties lie more towards Celtic) but I don't view this as the doom and gloom for Scottish Football that everyone is predicting.

Rangers will still have a HUGE draw in Scotland and around the world. Remember that loyalty tends to be based more about the supporters backgrounds, family histories and the sectarian affiliations than anything else.

The new club will still pack Ibrox every home game no matter what league they are competing in. As a result they will still generate more gate receipts than their rivals and have the ability to pay higher wages than their immediate competitors. Successive promotions through SFL3 , SFL2 , SFL1 and back to the SPL in 4 seasons is not an unrealistic goal. Once they're there again, they may not be able to compete for the title immediately, but at least the Old Firm derbies will be back on the TV and generating money.

In the meantime, while Rangers are playing the lower league teams, the towns those teams are based in will be playing host to up to 5 -10k 'visitor's' every other weekend , filling their pubs, their shops , their terraces and bringing much needed revenue to those clubs and the local economies. Surely a good thing for small towns like Montrose , Alloa , Brechin etc etc ??

The immediate issue for the SPL itself is that while they wait for NewRangers to climb back up the ladder, Celtic and the Edinburgh clubs will have to carry the financial burden for the league until that time. Okay, i get that SPL clubs in general are in a precarious financial situation, but the fact the 2nd tier teams (Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell etc) only have a 'Big 1' to worry about now, it should motivate them more to try and achieve Champions League or Euro League qualification which will generate even more money than 4 games a year against Rangers.

Rangers will be back there's no doubt . As i said they still have the huge draw for fans and also young players who will be supporting them even more than ever now. It's now up to the SFA to make sure they can keep the boat afloat for the time being.

Hell if the other clubs can catch upto Celtic maybe it'll be a Big 4 and we all know how unpredictable that can be don't we ???


Jus' my tuppence worth ......now, i'm going back to stressing why my club can't keep hold of a Captain for more than one season !!

Scotney x

A few points on the above. The only punishments Rangers received were the 10 point deduction(Which had no impact on their league position) and the fine of £160k(Which will never be paid).

Motherwell and Dundee were not demoted, as they only entered administration. Both clubs(Dundee on 2 occassions) emerged from administration after agreeing to deals with their creditors. Rangers could not do this and have entered liquidation proceedings. In line with previous Scottish clubs who have followed the same route (Gretna, Airdrieonians, Third Lanark), they forfeited their league membership. This is not a punishment levelled against the club, this is a consequence of running a business that could not support itself and pay it's debts.

The European ban was a consequence of not filing their accounts. This is a consequence of they way the business was run, not a punishment levelled specifically against Rangers. Any club in Europe who fails to produce accounts will face the same fate. 3 years audited accounts are a pre requisite for entry to UEFA sponsored competition.

The transfer embargo.... The enquiry and the thinking behind the decision to apply it stated that the only real alternative was to revoke their membership of the SFA. They felt this was too harsh, but of all the other punishments stated none of them could be deemed suitable as a punishment for the crime, deliberately withholding taxes in order to keep the club running. Rangers got off lightly with a transfer ban, something I think they have acknowledged(Despite taking it to court and having it overturned) by accepting a ban on the new club starting from 1st September this year.

Nothing above was unfair, or disproportionate to anything applied to other clubs. The only situations that can really be compared are Gretna, Airdrieonians and Third Lanark, all of whom disappeared from senior football completely. In that respect, Rangers have got off lightly. When Airdrieonians went bust, they reapplied to rejoin the league and were refused entry. Airdrie Utd only gained membership by buying another club. Rangers were pretty much shoehorned into the 3rd division in a manner that no other club, other than maybe Celtic, would have been. Rangers got off lightly.

On a seperate note, I see the SPL/SFL have announced a new TV deal with Sky, earning approx £13m a season. Not a massive amount down on the deal that has just expired, and will probably mean the predicted doom and gloom does not come to pass. That said, if I was in charge of Kilmarnock, Dunfermline or any other club carrying a massive debt, I'd be sorely tempted to liquidate and demand the same treatment that Rangers got. The precedent set by what has happened is far more dangerous to Scottish football than the prospect of Rangers or Celtic disappearing completely.

What he said.

do the jocks really think what happens to scottish football bothers english football fans..yes england aren't the world beaters...but we have a chance on the day against anyone and none of the big teams fancy playing us.and we qualify for tournaments.but back to the point we wont have any anti english,terrorist loving,pub bomber worshipping team in english football.when scotland votes for independence ask mr salmond to give the scottish teams some oil money....

Wow. Great first post. Let me guess, you're over here as a diplomat?

Where is the embassy for Trolland?