Travel Thread

[Nickers]

Hi

I have searched the forum but couldn't find a travel section, there's the Events, Travel, Outdoors thread but the sub threads are commercial or non commercial events so thought it would be a good idea to maybe do a travel sub heading? what do you think Mark?

Anyway I think it would be useful to have a thread where people gave tips and ideas on day trips, weekend trips, accomodation, transport etc..

Its something that would have benefited me when we first arrived and also would still benefit me now - there are so many things to do and places to go and advice on locations, camp sites, B&B's Hotels, transport etc.. would be very useful.

If people have any good experiences to share then I'm sure their experiences would be beneficial to lots of people.

Also I have family visiting in October for a week and am panicking as I don't know where to take them

Summer is easy when you have visitors but I am not sure what to do with my in-laws in October (I know what I'd like to do with them but thats a different story )

Anyway any advice will be greatly appreciated - I will be following this post with my contribution of places I have been to and enjoyed

Thanks in advance for any of your ideas.

Nicky

[Nickj]

Good idea, we often wonder what to do and where to go at weekends.
Have two children so becomes doubly complicated trying to please everyone.

[DaveA]

I agree it would be a very useful resource, although I am not sure of the best way to manage it..over to Mark

dave

PS: I was in the Kunsthaus on Saturday, and I have some strong opinions on it.

[mark]

Hi Nicky,

[moving this thread to Forum Support....]

This actually came up recently in the forum of one of the members sending me a private message. This was my response:

	Quote:	mark
	Actually I'm a little unsure how to proceed - the category "Events, Travel, Outdoors" was just supposed to define in broad terms what would happen in broad terms in the forums below which were divided into commercial and non-commercial. A better way to think it of it would be Events (which might also involve travel and the outdoors). But I can see that this original line of thinking wasn't very clear. It would probably be better to remove travel and outdoors from the category if it is causing confusion. Specific reviews of travel - hotels, transport. Interesting idea - what I have to be careful of is creating overlap (and therefore confusion). For example, if we specifically made a section for people wanting to travel to Switzerland it could also turn into some sort of travellers forum - and such people are just hear to get not contribute - the primary purpose of the forum was for people living here. Willing to listen to suggestions about what such areas should be called, where they would be placed, and exactly what the descriptions for the areas would be. I agree that Help & Tips is currently too general, but also want to avoid creating too many areas - the higher the number of areas the more chance that users will post in the wrong place and the more work for us. One new area idea I've had is TV-related (endless talk about sky TV etc). Before creating an area there should already be a trend of more than a few messages on that topic in the other areas. This is how off-topic, Business and Language corner were born - the only 3 new areas since the forum started.

So I'm still a little unsure how to proceed with it, but open to suggestions. I don't want to create additional confusion.

Let's look a little closer at some of the questions raised on this thread already:

Somewhere to take the kids on the weekend. Would this fit under travel? I don't really think it would? Nickj - Carmen started a thread Family Friendly places to visit in Switzerand which is probably where you want to go.

Where to take visiting parents? Again, would this fit under travel, what if it were just in Zurich and you lived in Zurich? Wouldn't technically be travel would it? What about a short trip away from where you live? Would that be travel?

We should also remember that threads are not always single questions. For example "I want to take my parent to XYZ, any recommendations" could be a thread on it's own, but it would be more useful to have a thread like "Bored: Where to go on a rainy day in Zurich" (one of my favourite questions!) and a thread like that might be a good place to make a post about where to take the parents.

What I'm saying is that I'd prefer to see less threads with more posts on them than more threads which are often related (this means more work for me, and less chance that people find what they are looking for).

They key to a new section is the name and the description of the area, since this is the guidance to people as to where the best place for their message is (right Nicky?). So the wording has to be chosen very carefully so as not to create confusion or overlap.

One suggestion:
Name: Short Trips, Travel, etc.
Description: Planning a quick get-away? Family visiting? Questions and tips relating to accomodation, transport, etc.

One disadvantage I can think of from the above description is that it might encourage messages like "I'd like to come to Switzerland, where should I stay, and what should I do when I am there". We've had a few like that already. (the answer by the way is: use google!). The focus of the forum is more for people living here or planning to live here, rather than a tourist service.

Still open to some better suggestions!

[Nickers]

Hmmm I see your point Mark, I have just typed out a long list of places I have visted that may help other people looking for short trips and weekend trips but not sure if to post it now as it may not be in the right place or the right thing to do

I agree that it will be difficult to manage the thread and that there is a risk of people using the thread for holidays in Switzerland rather than tips for expats living here to take friends and family on weekends or day trips or even just themselves away on day trips - which is essentially what is needed. Also like you say we then have messy threads with duplicate info - i'm not sure how it can work either now reading your comments??? but its a shame as i know it would be a really useful and helpful thread

Maybe it could be

Travel Thread
sub headings
- Weekend trips
- Mountains & lakes
- Where to take kids
- Half day trips
- Full day trips
- Transport
- Accomodation

??? something like that maybe??

[Music Mole]

	Quote:	mark
	Somewhere to take the kids on the weekend. Would this fit under travel? I don't really think it would? ..... Where to take visiting parents? Again, would this fit under travel, what if it were just in Zurich and you lived in Zurich? Wouldn't technically be travel would it? What about a short trip away from where you live? Would that be travel?

ummmm, my answer to the above questions would be yes. I must confess I find this forum difficult to locate information in. I have been a part of other forums with more (but clear) subject areas, and to be honest, it didn't seem the moderators had to do a lot of moving about of threads. Certainly no more than I see here, and these are forums with many more visitors per day, so I think that it is possible that more headings might actually make things simpler in terms of finding information.

I can certainly understand not wanting to attract "I'm coming to visit Switzerland, where should I stay" type of posts, as that isn't in keeping with the forum's emphasis on English-speakers living in Switzerland.

As always I'll do my best to post according to the categories as ordained by the powers that be, but I do think a little travel tips area might be a nice addition as the forum seems to be growing and it could be a useful exchange of information.

[ming_the_merciless]

	Quote:	mark
	One disadvantage I can think of from the above description is that it might encourage messages like "I'd like to come to Switzerland, where should I stay, and what should I do when I am there". We've had a few like that already. (the answer by the way is: use google!). The focus of the forum is more for people living here or planning to live here, rather than a tourist service.

This is, indeed, a risk which will need to be managed should this suggestion be actioned. However, Ming is sure that there are many who live in Switzerland who enjoy to travel in/visit baths/walk in the country etc within Switzerland (Ming is one such being.)

While there is risk, there is also potential upside also.

Two potential downsides have been identified. Managing these has the potential for highly useable forum.

Depositing all information in a single thread may result in too much information being in a single place, thereby making it impossible to retrieve. Thematic or geographical sub-divisions would give greatly enhanced retrievability of the information (disproportionatly so with greater information acquisition.)

To avoid the "hit-and-run" approach, perhaps only users who have reached a certain threshold in terms of posting numbers (say 5, not so high as to be unachievable but not so low as to be easily abused) may post in this section. Mark, is this technically possible?

[mark]

Sorry about the delay in answering on this thread. I was working on some other stuff in the meantime...

Nicky - I've just proposed a major overhaul of the structure of the entire forum. This change incorporates an area for travel. I'm not sure how this will affect the travel information you've prepared. Maybe it should go into a single thread, or maybe into multiple threads. If you show it to me in advance maybe I can give you some advice?

The new structure thread is here.

Music Mole - remember that all forums are different, and the type of information they collect is different. Some types of information are easy to carve up, others are not. But I agree that as the forum grew some might have had trouble understanding it as it was too general. It was more general in the beginning because there wasn't enough content. Some people start forums with 20 or 30 different areas and they sit empty. I believe in starting with few areas, and then growing as required. Don't assume that the mods on these other forums had no work. We generally comment "on thread" about 20% of the time if we've moved it. Those other mods may not comment at all. After all, it takes a lot of time to send a PM and explain (trying to be nice) each time something has to be moved or changed. The temptation is there just to move and go onto the next thing without saying, and hope that the user "gets it" by themselves next time. Anyway, I hope the new structure is more to you liking.

"hit and run" strategies are currently implemented for commercial posts, but people often go around this by posting their commercial notices in clearly marked non-commercial areas. This almost always earns them a ban. Same goes for edit and deletes of posts - this only becomes available after 5 posts and 7 days. Many "high maintenance" users tire and their attention span is exceeded within 7 days. Applying such a policy to other areas could be tricky, people may have useful information to share, and they may be well behaved, it's difficult to have the system automatically regard everyone with suspicion as I like to believe that the majority of people are well-behaved.

Geographical divisions were floated before, but the answer from the forum members was a resounding no.

[Music Mole]

	Quote:	mark
	Music Mole - remember that all forums are different, and the type of information they collect is different.

Just thought I would clarify (as I had not stated it in my earlier post) that the forums I was thinking of/referring to were similar (ie. forums for expats in a given country).

I like the reorg and think it will make information much easier to find, and will also make it easier to feel more confident that I am a) not duplicating a previous thread and b) posting in the right area.