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Old 27.06.2015, 10:40
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Request for addition to Marketplace rules

Since the roolz state that sellers must include the location of an item in the thread title, could we add that potential buyers must check that they are prepared to travel to that location BEFORE they reserve items?

4 times in the last month it's happened to me that someone reserved an item, then decided it was too far once I gave them the collection address. Quite aside from the bad manners, I really don't like giving out a collection address at the end of a negotiation only to have some stranger pull out of the deal and be in possession of that address, it's a security concern.

Nobody minds reservations being cancelled because of changed circumstances or as a result of new information, but something that could easily be checked beforehand is different. I'm also not talking about an obligation to buy the item, so long as someone actually turns up to inspect it and doesn't just say, "oh sorry, it's too far". Surely that's what Google maps is for?
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Old 27.06.2015, 12:37
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

I'll be honest - You're one of the few people who puts the location in the title, even though it's mentioned in the rules. I used to add it but got fed up with how much time it took.

I don't know why folks that are interested in selling or giving things away can't make it easy on the buyers by providing basics like location or dimensions of large pieces of furniture.

At the same time, buyers can also be a bit lazy. They don't check locations, forget to verify if the size of an item, ask for delivery from far away, etc. Adding the rule you suggest sounds nice, but it's pretty hard to enforce.

Instead, you may wish to check the user's profile before responding to see if the potential buyer is anywhere near you. Or in your first reply, remind them of your rough location (a link to the Google map pin for Richterswil wouldn't hurt) and ask them if they're still interested now that it's clear where you're located.

That's just my 2 Rp for a Saturday morning.
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Old 27.06.2015, 12:48
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

Take a deposit before reserving. Also mention location multiple times in discussions
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Old 27.06.2015, 13:04
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

I understand the issue and it's a pain, but realistically we can't enforce any rules on buyers. With the rules we have for sellers we can edit or delete posts breaking the rules.

If you're suggesting we give out warnings or bans, then that's really beyond the scope of the mods. The marketplace was intended as a small side section to the forum's core purpose, yet it's pretty much become the busiest and most labour intensive part of the site. If we were also to act as arbiters in disputes, then it'd become unworkable.

Personally, I'd like to see the Marketplace sections close. There are sites that are much better suited for buying and selling because that's their specialty. They give a much better experience for both buyer and seller than EF (or Facebook) could ever do. The problem is that they tend to charge for that extra service.
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Old 27.06.2015, 13:08
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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4 times in the last month it's happened to me that someone reserved an item, then decided it was too far once I gave them the collection address. Quite aside from the bad manners, I really don't like giving out a collection address at the end of a negotiation only to have some stranger pull out of the deal and be in possession of that address, it's a security concern.
I don't know what your location is, but having been a buyer many times and not having a car, being able to get somewhere by public transport is important. So if somebody states Zürich or Bern but it turns out they are out in the deepest sticks and I need to catch three buses and spend 2 hours to get there, even if that part of the sticks is officially Zürich or Bern, I think that is a legitimate reason to withdraw as I have been mislead. The seller does not need provide a complete address but if a location has accessibility issues this needs to be said. Something likes "within 10 minutes of HB by tram" can help clarify such things wonderfully. If somebody believes that an old farmhouse in Hinertüpfelihofen is just as much Zürich as Bahnhofstrasse is, they may be technically right but it is misleading to others.
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Old 27.06.2015, 13:31
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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I don't know what your location is, but having been a buyer many times and not having a car, being able to get somewhere by public transport is important. So if somebody states Zuerich or Bern but it turns out they are out in the deepest sticks and I need to catch three buses and spend 2 hours to get there, even if that part of the sticks is officially Zuerich or Bern, I think that is a legitimate reason to withdraw as I have been mislead.
Well yes, but in such a situation where it's your own mobility that's limited surely you'd want to find out whether you could pick it up before 'reserving' it wouldn't you? I mean, sending a PM saying "I'd like to reserve X if I can get to you, where exactly are you?" isn't exactly rocket science.

To me it's pretty clear - sellers and buyers seem so often to miss the bleedin' obvious in their posts, I do sometimes wonder about their apparent lack of common sense.
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Old 27.06.2015, 18:39
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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I don't know what your location is
And there you prove exactly my point! My location is very clear in my profile and hence on every post. Even if I didn't put it in the title of my selling/giving away threads. Which I do.

I'm not asking for enforcement, clearly that's fairly impractical. But just a line in the rules asking people to check the location on Google maps might just raise awareness of what should be bleedin' obvious.

I don't know about closing the Marketplace threads altogether, but to be honest I'm never again going to bother posting free stuff. I don't need the hassle of - frankly - intelligent people being daft. Henceforth it's all going on the street with a Gratis sign on it
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Old 27.06.2015, 19:11
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

Even if you do put your location in, and write that buyer must collect, people will still reserve stuff and ask if you can drop it off in some suburb in Zurich which, for me at least, would be a two hour round trip - for a 10 CHF item...
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Old 29.06.2015, 11:35
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

If people live in difficult locations they might consider offering to meet up in some sane and mutually acceptable location. That's not the same as delivering to any Zürich suburb, but if you live in an far-flung and inaccessible corner of Richterswil, arranging a handover meeting say at Richterswil Bahnhof might sound like a fair compromise.

Just stating the name of the town is not sufficient information in my view.

I've bought lots of stuff on Ricardo and arranging a reasonable meeting place never seems to have been an insurmountable issue. On the EF it has.

I'm even prepared to pay people to deliver if I really want the item. It's not as if I'm asking for anything for free.
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Old 29.06.2015, 12:00
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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If people live in difficult locations they might consider offering to meet up in some sane and mutually acceptable location. That's not the same as delivering to any Zürich suburb, but if you live in an far-flung and inaccessible corner of Richterswil, arranging a handover meeting say at Richterswil Bahnhof might sound like a fair compromise.
Yes, it might be, but that's up to the buyer and seller to agree. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a seller to assume that the buyer will collect, unless otherwise stated, and will not agree to buy something without having a suitable means of transport to do do.

And for free stuff, well sure, one might say, as I did recently, can meet by arrangement near my office, or similar, but if not stated it surely must be assumed that the beneficiary will arrange to pick up at the convenience of the donor, no?
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Old 29.06.2015, 12:16
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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Yes, it might be, but that's up to the buyer and seller to agree. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a seller to assume that the buyer will collect, unless otherwise stated, and will not agree to buy something without having a suitable means of transport to do do.

And for free stuff, well sure, one might say, as I did recently, can meet by arrangement near my office, or similar, but if not stated it surely must be assumed that the beneficiary will arrange to pick up at the convenience of the donor, no?
Scenario 1:

Ad says: to be picked up in distant forlorn corner of little village.
Portential buyer ignores ad.

Scenario 2:

Ad says: to be picked up in Zürich
Potential buyer responds: I am interested. Where is the location?
Seller: communicates address in small village with thrice yearly bus service.
Potential buyer: Sorry, I can't go there. can we meet some other place? I'll pay extra for your costs.
Seller No.
Potential buyer: Okay, sorry, count me out.
Seller: You barsteward, I reserved the item for you and rejected three other PMs I received in the meantime. It's all your fault the sale didn't go through.

In these scenrious, who was being unreasonable, buyer or seller?
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Old 29.06.2015, 12:20
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

Seller, but your invented conversation probably doesn't match what actually happened.
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Old 29.06.2015, 12:21
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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And there you prove exactly my point! My location is very clear in my profile and hence on every post. Even if I didn't put it in the title of my selling/giving away threads. Which I do.

I'm not asking for enforcement, clearly that's fairly impractical. But just a line in the rules asking people to check the location on Google maps might just raise awareness of what should be bleedin' obvious.

I don't know about closing the Marketplace threads altogether, but to be honest I'm never again going to bother posting free stuff. I don't need the hassle of - frankly - intelligent people being daft. Henceforth it's all going on the street with a Gratis sign on it
This could easily be solved by the seller including a Google map link IN THE AD linking to somewhere in your close vicinity, but not giving your exact address (local supermarket or post office or anything). The people can then click the link before reserving and find out to a reasonable level where you are located, without needing to reserve and then wait until they get your exact address to know if they really can go or not.

Last edited by Richdog; 29.06.2015 at 14:06.
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Old 29.06.2015, 13:52
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

Just provide post code and commune, for example 1003 Lausanne. Put that in google map, and it will mark the area for you
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Old 29.06.2015, 16:28
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

Scenario multiple times

eng_ch: I'll meet you at Richterswil Bahnhof to hand over the item. Does 5.45pm on Sunday suit you? (knowing what time the trains get in)
Buyer: Oh, sorry, I didn't realise it was so far

<rolls eyes>
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Old 29.06.2015, 16:33
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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Just provide post code and commune, for example 1003 Lausanne. Put that in google map, and it will mark the area for you
Not sufficient on EF:
Ricardo location map wrong :(
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Old 29.06.2015, 17:07
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

It's simple. Just wipe their rep. Is there anything worse than that?
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Old 29.06.2015, 18:03
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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It's simple. Just wipe their rep. Is there anything worse than that?
Is it really necessary to resort to that level, surly a viable solution can be ageed upon.
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Old 29.06.2015, 20:41
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

Here's a prime example of why such a rule would be hard to enforce:

3 rooms flat in Bern from 1st August

OP clearly mentioned the city in the title of the ad, but someone was speed-reading and didn't notice it until after they'd asked for more info.
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Old 30.06.2015, 18:13
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Re: Request for addition to Marketplace rules

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Here's a prime example of why such a rule would be hard to enforce:

3 rooms flat in Bern from 1st August

OP clearly mentioned the city in the title of the ad, but someone was speed-reading and didn't notice it until after they'd asked for more info.
But why is that the OP's fault, and why does that mean we can't have a rule even mentioned?

And just in the last couple of days (and bearing in mind this is a free item):

Buyer: Is the [item] still available? Could I pick it up on Tuesday?
eng_ch: Sure, would 6pm suit you?
Buyer: [deathly silence]

I realise *enforecement* per se is difficult, but if the mods use "oh it's too difficult to enforce" as a reason not even to say "both sides are expected to act with some degree of courtesy and READ THE AD" then they are effectively saying they're only going to come down on sellers for violating their rules, which then tells buyers they can mess people about with impunity. At which point the sellers are going to say "f*** this for a game of soldiers, why should I put myself out and jump through hoops to comply with rules for ads, for people who can't even be arsed to use the brains God gave them? I'd rather just chuck it away" and that's the marketplace dead anyway.

Yeah, sorry, I'm a bit narked. And enough so to follow the suggestion above and start neg-repping people for the first time

ETA: I have just had great dealings with someone who wanted a load of my free items, volunteered to pay the postage and did so promptly, and now has a parcel in the post to him (I assume). Unfortunately he's not made any posts that I can rep, so here's a public shout out to ksvalliappa for a great transaction.
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Last edited by eng_ch; 30.06.2015 at 18:28.
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