Selling stuff on the forum - Discussion

[DaveA]

Prompted by recent sales adverts here, I thought I would kick off a discussion of the issues concerned with conducting personal sales on the forum...

I think there is a technique to it, clearly there are likely to be many viewers of an ad, but let's be honest, the offer of something that is readily available must be attractive in some way lead time or cost.

Few people will buy something at face value even if is exactly what they want and it does not age in the conventional sense. There is always the issue of what-if-goes-wrong (inadvertantly buying non-transferable concert or travel tickets, or gym memberships for example). Most people would rather buy these things from source unless there is some incentive to getting it from elsewhere.

Even if it doesn't age or wear, there is also an overhead involved in buying something second hand from someone, especially if it involves collection. Assuming that you work, your time has a value. An hour trapesing to another canton to collect something can be two hours out of your life and a few CHF in petrol. The price you are paying should factor this in.

What you are reall getting at though, is placing an advert on he forum leaves it open to scrutiny and comment. I have noted that ricardo does not publish questions asked of the seller unless the seller allows it or answers it, which prevents spoiling tactics.

I think the forum does potential buyers a service in this regard, as it ensures that key issues of functionality and veracity are questioned (look at people selling notebook macs for a long discussion of purchasing configurations)...

The only slightly negative thing from a sellers point of view is the expectation that the seller should go to extreme lengths to answer RTFM type of questions, which may require significant effort for the seller. Users that enjoy this, such as PCDesigns used to do this regularly...

The important thing is for potential sellers on this forum is that you are reach english speaking expats that are transitory and have similar needs, so selling your Sky satellite box or box of English books on here may be far more successful than through ricardo or similar...

dave

[Fraser]

I propose the following revolutionary system for selling things on the forum.

1) the seller writes a reasonably detailed advert describing the item for sale
2) anyone who is genuinely interested in the item for sale can contact the seller via private message for any additional information required or to make an offer and finalise the purchase. If someone asks for additional information which is useful to everyone else, the seller can add to the original post
3) That's it.

If you're not interested in buying something, keep your comments to yourself. I'm surprised every time I go into a shop that it's not full of EF'ers telling the shopkeep that their products are substandard, outdated or incorrectly priced. If you see something in a shop that you dont want to buy, do you feel the need to justify to someone exactly why you're not buying that article? As someone who has experienced the example DaveA gives, I tried to sell a macbook on this forum and got no end of smart remarks which I had to bite my virtual tongue not to respond to. I put it on the UBS pinboard and it sold within about 15 minutes with no-one feeling the need to criticise my advert.

However, let's get real here...

Everyone is very brave with their opinions when they've got a fake username, an avatar and a web-interface to hide behind and as a result forum-culture will always be the same. Anyone that tries to sell anything on this forum is aware of that though and therefore should not be surprised when the inevitable occurs.

I like to try and sell things here because I feel that way i'm offering something to the ex-pat community, but at the same time I know it's usually more hassle than its worth. If you can't stand the heat, etc etc.

How's that for a schizophrenic post?

[krlock3]

I like frasers post very much.

[DaveA]

I agree with most of what you have written with the possible exception of "keep your comments to yourself". I think comments are good if the aid the seller or potential buyers. I do both for those that consider my position simply as a spoiler on this.

As a buyer I am of the "does it work, does the price seem reasonable" school of though and if is, then I will buy it. In my case there is quite an inertia in making to effort collect it, as time is at a premium.

Discussion of whether it runs current release V2.1 or V2.3 of some obscure network driver or other nerdy detail is not really of any concern to me unless I was paying a huge amount for it. What would concern me if it was an unsupported import, or there was a well-known design flaw which resulted in a recall (of which I was not aware). Electronics goods are volatile in price, so buying new is often better value is you need new functionality.

Example of unreasonable demands are in response to "Free: 3 boxes 240 English books, assorted" are: "do you have a list?", "can you deliver?",or "are they marked ?". It's common sense really. I know someone that was giving away a free functional hifi and the recepient wanted it delivered...

If you keep the description sufficient but concise and the price reasonable, apply a nerd filter, things should go smoothly. There is the obvious advantage too of selling to someone in the forum community (if I may call it that) you "know".


dave

	Quote:	Fraser
	I propose the following revolutionary system for selling things on the forum. 1) the seller writes a reasonably detailed advert describing the item for sale 2) anyone who is genuinely interested in the item for sale can contact the seller via private message for any additional information required or to make an offer and finalise the purchase. If someone asks for additional information which is useful to everyone else, the seller can add to the original post 3) That's it. If you're not interested in buying something, keep your comments to yourself. I'm surprised every time I go into a shop that it's not full of EF'ers telling the shopkeep that their products are substandard, outdated or incorrectly priced. If you see something in a shop that you dont want to buy, do you feel the need to justify to someone exactly why you're not buying that article? As someone who has experienced the example DaveA gives, I tried to sell a macbook on this forum and got no end of smart remarks which I had to bite my virtual tongue not to respond to. I put it on the UBS pinboard and it sold within about 15 minutes with no-one feeling the need to criticise my advert. However, let's get real here... Everyone is very brave with their opinions when they've got a fake username, an avatar and a web-interface to hide behind and as a result forum-culture will always be the same. Anyone that tries to sell anything on this forum is aware of that though and therefore should not be surprised when the inevitable occurs. I like to try and sell things here because I feel that way i'm offering something to the ex-pat community, but at the same time I know it's usually more hassle than its worth. If you can't stand the heat, etc etc. How's that for a schizophrenic post?

[krlock3]

Did you buy and sell many things yourself on the EF Davea?

How was your experience?

[DaveA]

You wouldn't want what I am selling. No, generally for the reasons I've described.

If you selling a second-hand wardrobe, its ideal. If you are selling 1963 Gibson 335, it's not the place.

The time effort and hassle involved for me outweighs the financial benefit or disposal opportunity unless the ticket value is sufficiently large and the product was targeted at specifically at expats.

dave

	Quote:	krlock3
	Did you buy and sell many things yourself on the EF Davea? How was your experience?

[krlock3]

Nope, i didnt think so. However, some of your comments and the comments of other users can derail their attempt at selling. And then it can turn into a flame war... lets face it, whens the last time you backed down?

The same predictable pattern then emerges. Now and again, why dont you surprise us by posting more constructive advice to those selling. Of course, "comments" have their place but sometimes the comments have the effect of being the spoiler tactics that you alluded to.

I suppose that real bargains will always be snapped up, and there are more than their fair share of people selling things in a misguided manner. I mean, I see why you created this thread.

I have bought a few things on here over the times. I only tried to sell my ipod touch once and was inundated with spoiler type threads, "oh you can get this for chf 3 cheaper on www" as if i am trying to rip people off. Net result is that I gave up.

[DC_in_Hombi]

I must admit I wasted my time trying to sell on EF
Subaru Legacy for sale [Hinwil]

people discussing pricing and who had driven the car

but then I should have stuck with specilised sites and not tried to do any favours.


DC

[krlock3]

I should add that i am not immune to having posted comments myself which might be construed as not constructive, however I should like to think, only in the case where there is a large distortion in the sellers reality field.

I have to say Dave that your attempt to frustrate the girl's sale of an her unused 10 pool entrances, leave me perplex.

She wanted to sell that and recover her money, that's it. Maybe another forum expat living near could get it and then both would be happy with the transaction, they helped each other. end of story.

Why do you have to be jumping to all threads to spoil, criticize, make scorn of every other poster ? I don't get it.

[DaveA]

"derail their attempt at selling". If they are making a dubious offer should one remain silent, even if they knew that another user may be sold a dud ?

You may be in the habit of backing down, as you put it, but that's a matter for you. At the end of the day you can use your skill and judgement to decide whether the seller is offering a good deal or not or indeed how much interest you take in the discussion.

In an efficient market, all available information is available to the buyer and the seller. We are helping that along the way....As long as the questions comments observations by others are reasonable and proportionate I see them as an asset. A reputable seller should welcome them.

I agree with Fraser's comments because I know the experience he has had selling things and fully appreciate the points he is making. The point you make re. price I also agree with. Toppreis for example list suppliers with low prices with which forum offers are compared, but there is always someone somwhere that thinks they have found better...even if it is subsequently "unavailable".

dave

	Quote:	krlock3
	Nope, i didnt think so. However, some of your comments and the comments of other users can derail their attempt at selling. And then it can turn into a flame war... lets face it, whens the last time you backed down? The same predictable pattern then emerges. Now and again, why dont you surprise us by posting more constructive advice to those selling. Of course, real bargains will always be snapped up i suppose. I have bought a few things on here over the times. I only tried to sell my ipod touch once and was inundated with spoiler type threads, "oh you can get this for chf 3 cheaper on www" as if i am trying to rip people off. Net result is that I gave up.

[symbot]

I had a good experience with buying a cell phone from somebody on these forums. Actually that was the reason I signed up for the forums! The For Sale/Wanted section is the only part of the site that I regularly read... It is interesting to see what kind of stuff people put up for sale and hunt for bargains.

I may be a special case though. I used to be a bit addicted to Ebay back when I lived in the States, but haven't found the Swiss version or Ricardo.ch to be as compelling.

[peachy]

Many people that have recently moved to Switzerland can be a target for people that are trying to offload carp at a premium price.

I think it's perfectly fair to point out if somebody is e.g. selling something second hand at close to it's current retail price.

If the price is fair and the description reasonable nobody will have a bad thing to say about it, those that do take offence are normally trying to pull a fast one to some extent.

An example would be if I was selling a US import car but omit the fact that it's a US import from the description, I got a good price on the car new and don't want to loose on the resale. Somebody unwittingly buys the car, at what seems an attractive price, without fully understanding exactly what they are buying, it's their problem then. Could somebody have prevented them making this mistake ? Yes.

As somebody who knows very little about art I would hope somebody would point out if the original Monet I was about to buy was in fact counterfeit.

[DaveA]

I am tempted here to offer to sell you my car at new list price to illustrate the point, but I fear even then you wouldn't get it.

The "doing someone a favour" aspect of it may of course apply, but I think someone that will pay face value for something currently available is unlikely to be influenced by anything I or others highlight.

The fact you don't "get it" salsalover is of no surprise to me, or others.

dave

	Quote:	Salsa_Lover
	I have to say Dave that your attempt to frustrate the girl's sale of an her unused 10 pool entrances, leave me perplex. ...... Why do you have to be jumping to all threads to spoil, criticize, make scorn of every other poster ? I don't get it.

[krlock3]

	Quote:	DaveA
	I agree with most of what you have written with the possible exception of "keep your comments to yourself".

yeah, lets face it, that was never quite going to fly with you, was it.

[peachy]

	Quote:	DC_in_Hombi
	I must admit I wasted my time trying to sell on EF Subaru Legacy for sale [Hinwil] people discussing pricing and who had driven the car but then I should have stuck with specilised sites and not tried to do any favours. DC

To be fair the comments about your car were all positive, and you probably wasted about 10 minutes total.

I don't really understand what favour you were doing or attempting to do.

	Quote:	DaveA
	I am tempted here to offer to sell you my car at new list price to illustrate the point, but I fear even then you wouldn't get it. The "doing someone a favour" aspect of it may of course apply, but I think someone that will pay face value for something currently available is unlikely to be influenced by anything I or others highlight. The fact you don't "get it" salsalover is of no surprise to me, or others. dave

Dave,

I guess I can agree with you if the seller is offering a material object which intrisec value then is reduced by the wear, as a car.

But she was selling entrances to the pool that she'd no longer use.

Somebody that want to go to the pool can pay the same at the door, sure. She was searching for someone who pick up those and like this they help each other.

I see nothing wrong on that. If there is nobody interested then that's it. If someone sends a PM offering a lower price and she accepts, it's great too.

what is not great is that someone jumps in to spoil the sale/help wathever....


this cartoon came to mind

[DaveA]

I agree with you, except - as people keep telling me- if you don't like what someone else has written, just ignore it. Someone helping out someone else is unlikely to be so concerned with getting a bargain, so would ignore our pros and cons comments in any case.

"Pro" comments supporting the deal are made by posters and do provide some balance.

dave

	Quote:	Salsa_Lover
	But she was selling entrances to the pool that she'd no longer use. Somebody that want to go to the pool can pay the same at the door, sure. She was searching for someone who pick up those and like this they help each other. I see nothing wrong on that. If there is nobody interested then that's it. If someone sends a PM offering a lower price and she accepts, it's great too. what is not great is that someone jumps in to spoil the sale/help wathever....

[Jekyll]

Regarding the pool entrance tickets, I think think that we are overlooking an important selling point. Although the tickets appear to be being sold at face value, there is a special case where a potential buyer may jump at this salivating offer.

If I knew that I only wanted to go swimming exactly 10 times in total during the period of validity of the ticket then the CHF50 offer price would represent a CHF10 saving over the cost of the single entry ticket and also over the alternative CHF60 12-pack of tickets.

Bargain.

	Quote:	DaveA
	I am tempted here to offer to sell you my car at new list price to illustrate the point, but I fear even then you wouldn't get it. The "doing someone a favour" aspect of it may of course apply, but I think someone that will pay face value for something currently available is unlikely to be influenced by anything I or others highlight. The fact you don't "get it" salsalover is of no surprise to me, or others. dave

Also AFAIK, single entry tickets are priced higher, so if you wanted to buy 10 single tickets maybe it'd cost you more than 50.-