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  #241  
Old 24.08.2011, 19:36
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Who feels stupid now?
So you read and understood the whole of Stephen Hawkins theory on black holes? Even the mathematics? ..... f*** me, I feel stupid now....to have been chatting on the same forum...wow. I thought there were only a handfull of people on the planet who got all of it.

Of course there is still some very valid mathematics in there and I promise you that Stephen Hawkins is not the one that feels stupid now. He just wants to get one with trying to figure things out...like a good little homeopath....sorry scientist.

Okay, my stance on this stuff was said earlier in this thread and I will say it again.

This is my philosophy.

I don't believe in anything that does not have definite proof.
I don't disbelieve in anything that cannot be disproved.
I don't believe in homeopathy because it cannot be proved to me.
I don't disbelieve in homeopathy because I can't see any definitive proof that it does not work.

Would I rely on it to save my life....no.
Would I try it to save my life... f*** yeah!

Good grief, I did not know that EF too out the F words!!!!!
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Last edited by colinwheeler; 24.08.2011 at 19:39. Reason: Good grief, I did not know that EF too out the F words!!!!!
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  #242  
Old 24.08.2011, 19:45
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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When you have finished running around in circles, try to step back into the current discussion.
OK, do you think that your expanded mind mean placebos work better on you?
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  #243  
Old 24.08.2011, 19:49
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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This is my philosophy.

I don't believe in anything that does not have definite proof.
I don't disbelieve in anything that cannot be disproved.
I don't believe in homeopathy because it cannot be proved to me.
I don't disbelieve in homeopathy because I can't see any definitive proof that it does not work.
Belief is the death of intelligence."
Robert Anton Wilson quote
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  #244  
Old 24.08.2011, 19:50
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

Listen to this- the first part ( not the rest)

A model is a good model when......

and then go figure!

I just believe that matter/ energy can never be completely destroyed, it doesn't make sense to me. However no-one can be completely sure about anything, there are no definite predictions.

So what is a good model Stephen Hawkins? The man just loves attention-can't let go. It took him years to admit that he was wrong people like that are dangerous.

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HSUsXYcQ5qA&feature=related
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  #245  
Old 24.08.2011, 19:52
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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This is my philosophy.

I don't believe in anything that does not have definite proof.
Tosh. You believe a car is coming round the corner when you hear what sounds like a car (incredibly far from definite proof or even super strong evidence) yet you don't cross. You believe in all sorts of things without any sort of strong evidence. Even broad correlations without causal links get you to react.
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  #246  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:20
hoppy
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

I made a big mistake once. I got my son homeopathic treatment to avoid the measles immunization shot- he had some mild food allergies. The we had a measles epidemic. I got him the shot- but too late, he broke out in the rash right after getting the shot. He was OK thank goodness, but the fevers were scary.

So medical science first and homeopathy as back-up, but tell your doctor what you are doing in homeopathy, so that he can warn against mixing of medications side-affects etc. Homeopathy can work the problem is that the homeopathic industry is not properly regulated,
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  #247  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:25
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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I made a big mistake once. I got my son homeopathic treatment to avoid the measles immunization shot- he had some mild food allergies. The we had a measles epidemic. I got him the shot- but too late, he broke out in the rash right after getting the shot. He was OK thank goodness, but the fevers were scary.

So medical science first and homeopathy as back-up, but tell your doctor what you are doing in homeopathy, so that he can warn against mixing of medications side-affects etc. Homeopathy can work the problem is that the homeopathic industry is not properly regulated,
Homeopathy is not a medication, it's water. Therefore there is never a need to tell a medical doctor what you're doing in homeopathy - you aren't doing anything at all.
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  #248  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:31
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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A Philosophical debate would be great. But the Scientists among us in this thread keep asking for proof. They can only believe it, if explained in their own language, and fail to grasp that their language is insufficient and lacks the imagination to go beyond algebra and algorithm.

Funny that, philosophy is the subject I studied. It does indeed allow for much mind expanding discussion along the 'what if...' line. What it does not do too well is deal with pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die style argument.
To quote one well known philosopher: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." 7. Tractatus Logico Philosophicus Wittgenstein.

You, however, would probably stop reading at 6.522 "there are, indeed things that cannot be put into words. They make themselves manifest. They are what is mystical." (emphasis in the original)
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  #249  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:33
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Funny that, philosophy is the subject I studied. It does indeed allow for much mind expanding discussion along the 'what if...' line. What it does not do too well is deal with pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die style argument.
To quote one well known philosopher: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." 7. Tractatus Logico Philosophicus Wittgenstein.

You, however, would probably stop reading at 6.522 "there are, indeedm things that cannot be put into words. They make themselves manifest. They are what is mystical." (emphasis in the original)
Imposing writers bias a tad there aren't you ?
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  #250  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:34
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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And that is why science keeps working on the answers and growing and religion huddles in its temples and says that the gospel will never change.
That may be true about organized religion, but humans are still filling the void with all sorts of spiritual pursuits – ranging from art perhaps and finishing with “the new agey mumbo jumbo”, which you so vehemently condemn. I think it was C.G. Jung who said that a human soul is “naturally religious”, i.e. people will never cease to look for answers to the most significant eschatological questions.
Economisto complained about the lack of philosophical debate. I’d be happy to discuss Martin Heidegger, who had a huge influence on the way I see things, especially with his essay What is Metaphysics? “The only genuine philosophical question is why there is something rather than nothing.”

Last edited by Sagitta; 24.08.2011 at 22:02.
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  #251  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:45
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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The molecular memory / water memory has long been disregarded. Nobody claims to know how Homeopathy *really* works. It is designed to stimulate the bodies own healing abilities, as all Placebos can be said to do. Either via the mind or whatever you think causes a placebo to work. If prescribed as a placebo, then that is completely intentional. A desired effect from a predicted outcome. Nothing unintentional to that at all.
You're just trolling now. I have no problem with anything non harmful being prescribed or given as a placebo in addition to normal therapy.

I have a problem with homeopathic remedies being prescribed as having an effect through homeopathic healing or there being something special about homeopathic remedies which give them advantage over thin air.

The homeopathic remedy has no effect on the treatment. What the patient thinks does and that's independent of homeopathic remedy.
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  #252  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:48
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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You're just trolling now. I have no problem with anything non harmful being prescribed or given as a placebo in addition to normal therapy.

I have a problem with homeopathic remedies being prescribed as having an effect through homeopathic healing or there being something special about homeopathic remedies which give them advantage over thin air.

The homeopathic remedy has no effect on the treatment. What the patient thinks does and that's independent of homeopathic remedy.
It's amazing how many times someone calls someone else a troll simply because they disagree strongly. We have been , were, yourself included, discussing Homeopathy prescribed as a placebo, described as a placebo , used as a placebo. As I mentioned before in this thread, the merits of Homeopathy medicine when prescribed as such are debated in another thread.
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  #253  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:51
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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So medical science first and homeopathy as back-up, but tell your doctor what you are doing in homeopathy, so that he can warn against mixing of medications side-affects etc. Homeopathy can work the problem is that the homeopathic industry is not properly regulated,
Does that I mean I should never drink Evian straight after San Pellegrino but Perrier is OK, or not take aspirin with Badoit?
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  #254  
Old 24.08.2011, 20:55
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Does that I mean I should never drink Evian straight after San Pellegrino but Perrier is OK, or not take aspirin with Badoit?
Playing devils advocate, if a patient is taking Homeopathy (prescribed as a placebo by another Dr), and the placebo effect is working, and stimulating a healing response, then I believe the next Dr. should be informed.

However, homeopathy is safe and does not react adversely with other medications at the pharmacological level, but a Dr may want to let it run it's course before prescribing alternative classical medication.

Interesting though, if you were treating a patient, and the placebo affect was working, would you stop the treatment and move onto more conventional medicines ?
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  #255  
Old 24.08.2011, 22:14
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Okay, my stance on this stuff was said earlier in this thread and I will say it again.

This is my philosophy.

I don't believe in anything that does not have definite proof.
I don't disbelieve in anything that cannot be disproved.
I don't believe in homeopathy because it cannot be proved to me.
I don't disbelieve in homeopathy because I can't see any definitive proof that it does not work.

Would I rely on it to save my life....no.
Would I try it to save my life... f*** yeah!
!
You could see to eternity if your head (i.e. ego) wasn't in the way.

(Read this piece of wisdom as grafiti on a toilet wall in Amsterdam back in 1970).
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  #256  
Old 25.08.2011, 03:01
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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You could see to eternity if your head (i.e. ego) wasn't in the way.


"Just keep taking the tablets."
- Managing Director, Nelsons

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  #257  
Old 25.08.2011, 03:41
hoppy
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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"Just keep taking the tablets."
- Managing Director, Nelsons

Yes, but which ones? Homeopathic tablets? Prescribed tablets? Over the counter tablets? Tablets my friend gave me? Tablets I found in the cabinet?
Should I take them in combination? What is the right combination? What time of day should I take them? Should I take them with food or without? What foods should I avoid while taking them? Should I drive or operate machinery while taking them? Should I tell someone that I am taking them? Should I not tell someone that I am taking them? How should I store them? Do they have a sell-by date? Can I get by without them? Can I flush them? Can I half them? What happens if I forget a dose?

It's all too complicated.
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  #258  
Old 25.08.2011, 04:18
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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  #259  
Old 25.08.2011, 09:47
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Belief is the death of intelligence."
Robert Anton Wilson quote
CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!!! He is talking about religious belief.

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

Without belief as defined above there is no possible way to have a scientific process.

The difference between science and religion is not belief, but the willingness to change your belief in the face of evidence.

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Tosh. You believe a car is coming round the corner when you hear what sounds like a car (incredibly far from definite proof or even super strong evidence) yet you don't cross.
Piffle, I guess or speculate that it is a car and therefore don't cross. It could be a bus or a motorcycle, I am not going to risk my life either way and it does not require anything half as firm as belief. See the definition above. I don't feel like too much of a semantic debate this morning.


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You could see to eternity if your head (i.e. ego) wasn't in the way.
More like if the toilette wall was not in the way. Sorry Enaj but I typically don't take most of philosophy from a Amsterdam toilette wall.

I personally have no problems seeing, wrapping my head around or understanding eternity, infinity or other simple mathematical abstractions like that.

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That may be true about organized religion, but humans are still filling the void with all sorts of spiritual pursuits – ranging from art perhaps and finishing with “the new agey mumbo jumbo”, which you so vehemently condemn. I think it was C.G. Jung who said that a human soul is “naturally religious”, i.e. people will never cease to look for answers to the most significant eschatological questions.
Economisto complained about the lack of philosophical debate. I’d be happy to discuss Martin Heidegger, who had a huge influence on the way I see things, especially with his essay What is Metaphysics? “The only genuine philosophical question is why there is something rather than nothing.”
What humans fill thier voids with is hardly a topic for public debate.

I condem any belief system that would, in the face of evidence, not change its belief system to accept that evidence.

I am fully willing to talk about philosophy but you should know that I am belong to the school of Hedonistic Egotism and I don't hold with religious mumbo jumbo at all. Imprinting children with fairytales and telling them it is the truth is EVIL and I refuse to be involved in any discussion that encourages that behaviour.

I don't know Martin Heidegger but my formal education in philosophy would not have included him because of his Nazi party membership and support of Hitler. What points did he try and make?
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Last edited by colinwheeler; 25.08.2011 at 10:39.
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  #260  
Old 25.08.2011, 09:58
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Is it me or aren't scientists about the least vain and self-indulgent people? Shit money for research projects, long hours, high failure rate of experiments for maybe one "Eureka" moment in a lifetime's work, if they are lucky.

Yeah, real prima donas them scientists...
As with all society there's a range. There's some good egg-heads and some bad ones - not related to their science, but their egos.

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You're just trolling now. I have no problem with anything non harmful being prescribed or given as a placebo in addition to normal therapy.

I have a problem with homeopathic remedies being prescribed as having an effect through homeopathic healing or there being something special about homeopathic remedies which give them advantage over thin air.

The homeopathic remedy has no effect on the treatment. What the patient thinks does and that's independent of homeopathic remedy.


Sorry, I have to share the love so can't +rep you for that...
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