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  #121  
Old 23.08.2011, 13:59
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Hang on, I think I am on to a new proving

Does it matter what dog ? Are little dogs tails better for bigger hangovers ?
Highland Terrier for a whiskey hangover perhaps?
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  #122  
Old 23.08.2011, 14:26
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

Goodness me, is it 2008-2010 again already?

Homeopathy: Placebo or Real
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  #123  
Old 23.08.2011, 14:34
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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No, just a reference lookup in the Homeopathy Materia Medica. It's very simple. Noting the symptoms, gathering the picture, holistic view etc.

It's not Rocket Science
Ohhhh, so they take a complete picture? Ask how the patient is feeling, get them to describe their symptoms, check for symptoms that might be related but the patient may not have noticed. Check blood pressure and heart rate. When the diagnosis doesn't seem to be working out, they probably delve even deeper, take blood samples and look for things the patient may have no idea about, ask about diet and exercise, general level of fitness, ask about work and home environment, family histories, maybe even ask a few questions that might make the patient feel uncomfortable, that sort of complete picture?

Then prescribe drops of water on sugar pills.
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  #124  
Old 23.08.2011, 14:41
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Ohhhh, so they take a complete picture? Ask how the patient is feeling, get them to describe their symptoms, check for symptoms that might be related but the patient may not have noticed. Check blood pressure and heart rate. When the diagnosis doesn't seem to be working out, they probably delve even deeper, take blood samples and look for things the patient may have no idea about, ask about diet and exercise, general level of fitness, ask about work and home environment, family histories, maybe even ask a few questions that might make the patient feel uncomfortable, that sort of complete picture?

Then prescribe drops of water on sugar pills.
Call it what you want. This argument is about the placebo effect
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  #125  
Old 23.08.2011, 14:47
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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More to the point remedies are more likely to be alchohol based.
Woah! Now. Now just hoooold on a minute.

You've got my attention.
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  #126  
Old 23.08.2011, 14:52
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Woah! Now. Now just hoooold on a minute.

You've got my attention.
true, 99.997% of what ails me, is solved through alcohol remedies
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  #127  
Old 23.08.2011, 14:55
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Call it what you want. This argument is about the placebo effect
OK, is a profession that relies enitrely on deceiving the customer an ethical one? At what point do placebo salesmen draw the line, and say, "well, actually, I could prescribe you a placebo, but really, you need to get some exercise". Or, "well that's quite normal for this kind of thing, it will go away on it's own in a couple of days, not much I can really do".
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  #128  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:03
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Call it what you want. This argument is about the placebo effect
OK. So what do you want?

A treatment that has been shown to have a definitive effect in a larger population of patients, or one that has been shown to have a truly random effect in some patients?

Yes.
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  #129  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:30
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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OK. So what do you want?

A treatment that has been shown to have a definitive effect in a larger population of patients, or one that has been shown to have a truly random effect in some patients?



Yes.

Let the patient decide on available treatments ?
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  #130  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:38
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Let the patient decide on available treatments ?
Answer the question instead of trying to deflect.
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  #131  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:39
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Let the patient decide on available treatments ?
But how can they make an informed choice when an industry that has been shown to be a fake will continuously lie about it's effectiveness. It could even be argued that it must lie in order to gain some measure of effectiveness.

Why not allow just wholescale fraud? Who are we to decide if something being sold is genuine or not, maybe 419 scams are real, and it's only a corrupt banking system that keeps the money from all the lucky benefactors.
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  #132  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:43
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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But how can they make an informed choice when an industry that has been shown to be a fake will continuously lie about it's effectiveness. It could even be argued that it must lie in order to gain some measure of effectiveness.

Why not allow just wholescale fraud? Who are we to decide if something being sold is genuine or not, maybe 419 scams are real, and it's only a corrupt banking system that keeps the money from all the lucky benefactors.
Why does your decision need to be informed to take a placebo ?
Aren't all placebos fraud ? That's a moot point, if they work, they work. Simples.
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  #133  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:44
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Answer the question instead of trying to deflect.
No deflection, it was a honest direct answer to your question, and a logical one at that.
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  #134  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:47
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Aren't all placebos fraud ? That's a moot point, if they work, they work. Simples.
No. Saying something will work and hedging your bets on a placebo effect is fraud. You don't "prescribe" placebo in the normal course of medical therapy.

Now. Stop deflecting and...



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No deflection, it was a honest direct answer to your question, and a logical one at that.
Ha. No it isn't. It is irrelevant. When I need legal advice, I go to a lawyer. When I need to have something built, I get a builder. When I need medical help, I go to a Dr. When I need my taxes done, I go to an accountant.

While I may have a base understanding of some of the things I need help on, but when it comes to important decisions, I rely on the expert - that's what I am paying for. If that expert is trying to sell me random chance with placebo, I question that person's authority to call themselves an expert.

Now stop deflecting and answer the question. A question which specifically asks what choice you would make. Not whether you should have the choice (which is your question and one step earlier than mine).
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Last edited by Carlos R; 23.08.2011 at 15:59.
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  #135  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:54
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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OK. So what do you want?

A treatment that has been shown to have a definitive effect in a larger population of patients, or one that has been shown to have a truly random effect in some patients?
I answered.

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Let the patient decide on available treatments ?



You don't like the answer, but it is an answer. You appear to be a little bit grumpy and bothered today - Summer heat ?
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  #136  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:57
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Why does your decision need to be informed to take a placebo ?
Aren't all placebos fraud ? That's a moot point, if they work, they work. Simples.
Because Homeopathy does not say it is a placebo, it pretends to be more. Even when we get to it admitting being a placebo, it still seems to be portrayed as a special kind of placebo, different from say, lollipops, as somehow a more effective placebo.
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  #137  
Old 23.08.2011, 15:58
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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You asked...

I answered.

You don't like the answer, but it is an answer. You appear to be a little bit grumpy and bothered today - Summer heat ?
Hot yes. Bothered no. Grumpy, well that's not really relevant, but for the record, no.

No you didn't answer the question. You've answered with a question of your own which occurs one step before mine. You now have the choice. What do you choose: Placebo or drug with documented effect?

If you fail to see that, I'll just assume you're trolling because you are bored at work, as opposed to trying to have a *shock horror* real discussion/debate.
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  #138  
Old 23.08.2011, 16:01
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Hot yes. Bothered no. Grumpy, well that's not really relevant, but for the record, no.

No you didn't answer the question. You've answered with a question of your own which occurs one step before mine. You now have the choice. What do you choose: Placebo or drug with documented effect?

If you fail to see that, I'll just assume your trolling because you are bored at work, as opposed to trying to have a *shock horror* real discussion/debate.
If you are giving me a choice, then I say let the patient decide. If you are not giving me a choice then what sort of an argument is that, if you only limit me to the responses you supply ? It's a fixed/flawed/biased survey.

My answer remains the same. Let the patient choose. Is everybody is a troll just because you don't like their answer ?
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  #139  
Old 23.08.2011, 16:08
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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If you are giving me a choice, then I say let the patient decide. If you are not giving me a choice then what sort of an argument is that, if you only limit me to the responses you supply ? It's a fixed/flawed/biased survey.
Why not allow this wonderful thinking in all life, give the consumer more choice! Real pills of counterfit pills made from rat poison, who knows? Toys with lead paint or without lead paint, why should it even be an issue? If the seller says what it is, then that's what it is. So the computer you ordered turns out ot be a pile of bricks in a box, who's to say that isn't really a computer? No accountablility, consumers rejoice! a new dawn of freedom is upon us, a better brighter future.
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  #140  
Old 23.08.2011, 16:09
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Re: The medical advantages of homeopathy

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Because Homeopathy does not say it is a placebo, it pretends to be more. Even when we get to it admitting being a placebo, it still seems to be portrayed as a special kind of placebo, different from say, lollipops, as somehow a more effective placebo.
This thread is based on the Homeopathy being an effective placebo. About being prescribed as a placebo, and it's efficacy as a placebo. There is a another thread for debating the other merits/demerits of Homeopathy.
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