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Old 16.12.2011, 12:17
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Tough Divorce

My non-suisse husband and I have been married for 10 years and have 1 daughter. After years of verbal abuse I left 3 years ago with our daughter to my home country but after about a year I realised that the lifestyle was too different for her and decided to send her back. In the course of 3yrs he has asked for me to come back but everytime I did- something would happen for me to distrust him and force me to leave. Now all of a sudden he wants a divorce. My question #1- is what happens if I don't agree #2- if it comes down to a divorce can I get custody of my daughter and how much financial rights I have. I don't mind moving back to Suisse but I have always been a stay at home mom. My husband has not paid for my living expences since I have moved out becuase I live with my parents. He tells me I don't need my own lawyer but I am afraid that since he is the one talking to him I will get screwed. Please help
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Old 16.12.2011, 12:31
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Re: Tough Divorce

If he wants to divorce and you dont want, or need the time to figure things out, then get a legal separation. and he cannot divorce from you in 2 years, that will give you time to think whats best for you and your kid. He is supposed to pay allamony and child support if the kid is with you plus (i think) half the pension.
Thats what i have read from multiple threads but every case is different. The only advise I can honestly give you is NEVER get the same lawyer, specially if HE IS THE ONE PAYING.
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Old 16.12.2011, 12:33
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Re: Tough Divorce

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He tells me I don't need my own lawyer but I am afraid that since he is the one talking to him I will get screwed. Please help
This is ridiculous. If you are getting divorced, you need a lawyer. Now. Go get one.

The lawyer will tell you about financial aid from your ex, your rights regarding your daughter, etc.

EDIT:

Ok, I'm confused. You left him to live with your parents because he was verbally abusing you. But after 3 years of separation, with what I understand, some failed tries to reunite, you are surprise he wants a divorce.

I'm confused. You actually don't want the divorce?
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Old 16.12.2011, 12:48
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Re: Tough Divorce

agreed very odd indeed, why wouldn't you want a divorce??
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Old 16.12.2011, 12:59
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Re: Tough Divorce

guys, there could be tons of reasons why not want a divorce. my friend had similar situation and she is only separated because a divorce is not the best for her kids, not right now anyways and this 2 years gives her the time to sort things out.
Dont judge her desicions, the keyword is she was verbally abused and when that happens to a woman i can assure you there will be tons of oportunities that she will give him. And still be surprised after the separation. There will be moments when she will even miss him and she will wish the family was never apart.
So please dont make this thread a discussion of whys and why nots and instead give her the advise she needs if you have it.

Thanks, and sorry but this kind of things really bring out feelings i try to bury.
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:15
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Re: Tough Divorce

Go and get your own lawyer and one that is familiar with abuse. I am coming to the end of a divorce with a man who was verbally abusive, physically abusive and very controlling. I tried to 'sort things' out on my own but ended up a nervous wreck. Having an understanding lawyer who was familiar with someone who 'plays games' has been my life line and a tremendous support. She has helped me to understand the laws and her advice has always been spot on. She was the second lawyer I consulted, the first one dropped me as the abusive aspect of the divorce became evident.

Never ever underestimate the affects of any type of abuse.

I totally agree with giving yourself time too, don't be rushed into anything, until you are ready but do go and get advice, so you know where you stand.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, good luck on your journey to a better life for you and your daughter. Big hugs x
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:20
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Re: Tough Divorce

There are plenty of reasons to stay legally married to someone you don't really want to be married to.

I don't know about the OP-and am not making any assumptions about her case- but one very good reason for an abused woman in Switzerland to refuse divorce in Switzerland is that if she is a foreigner, she loses her permit if she has been married less than five years.

That extra two years the separation provides can give you time to build your case, arrange custody, go through the court system, etc and can give you a fighting chance at keeping your permit (which doesn't always happen unless abuse is proven or the custody situation is complicated). If you get divorced you are gone in six months.

So a lot of times people that *should* get divorced stay married for reasons that may not be obvious to the public.
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:29
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Re: Tough Divorce

Sorry, I guess things are never just black and white
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:30
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Re: Tough Divorce

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There are plenty of reasons to stay legally married to someone you don't really want to be married to.
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So please dont make this thread a discussion of whys and why nots and instead give her the advise she needs if you have it.
You both missunderstand. I was not intending to start a discussion whether she should divorce or not.

But when I read "verbally abused" I assumed she wanted a divorce. Therefore I wrote she should get a lawyer as soon as possible to make sure she gets her rights respected. Monetary and children wise.

Problem is I noticed later the sentence "now he suddenly wants a divorce" which strikes as odd, because the whole text before seemed to indicate that's actually what she wanted.

If she doesn't want to get divorced, then I'd advise her to talk to the husband and a marriage counselor to see if they can both get to an understanding, rather than a lawyer.

Are my doubts now clearer?
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:36
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Re: Tough Divorce

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guys, there could be tons of reasons why not want a divorce. my friend had similar situation and she is only separated because a divorce is not the best for her kids, not right now anyways and this 2 years gives her the time to sort things out.
Dont judge her desicions, the keyword is she was verbally abused and when that happens to a woman i can assure you there will be tons of oportunities that she will give him. And still be surprised after the separation. There will be moments when she will even miss him and she will wish the family was never apart.
So please dont make this thread a discussion of whys and why nots and instead give her the advise she needs if you have it.

Thanks, and sorry but this kind of things really bring out feelings i try to bury.
You explain "there could be tons of reasons why not want a divorce", ask to be "neutral" (Dont judge her desicions) and yet you accused the man of abusing based on 1 "version" of 1 side of the 2 sides... (quoting that she said "she was verbally abused").

I am saying you are physically abusing me, people, believe me at all cost, ok?

Also what about the " left 3 years ago with our daughter to my home country " Is that not a kind of violence or abuse???
Leaving with the child away, privating the man from his rights, from seeing his child????

Yes, let me see, you're a woman, helping another poor victim woman...

And have the cheek to ask to be neutral...

That's what equals rights is about??



Hmm....

Let me assist you, either you "pick a side" based on random comments, or you keep fair and neutral. But don't try to do both...
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:45
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Re: Tough Divorce

CorsebouTheReturn, I seem to remember you were temporarily banned because you lost your temper exactly during one of this "it's not the man's fault, it's the woman" outbursts.

Independently of whether each individual sides with the woman or the man, you are bringing your banner agaisnt "women thinking men are the only ones to blame", while people are actually trying to offer counsel to this user, and trying to avoid pointing fingers on who's to blame and who's the innocent one.

What you are doing is the exact opposite.

I partially agree with you: I'm the first one to say "there's always a second side to a story". But I think right now the most important is to point the OP to the right direction for her and her husband and her daughter.
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Old 16.12.2011, 13:52
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Re: Tough Divorce

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CorsebouTheReturn, I seem to remember you were temporarily banned because you lost your temper exactly during one of this "it's not the man's fault, it's the woman" outbursts.

Independently of whether each individual sides with the woman or the man, you are bringing your banner agaisnt "women thinking men are the only ones to blame", while people are actually trying to offer counsel to this user, and trying to avoid pointing fingers on who's to blame and who's the innocent one.

What you are doing is the exact opposite.

I partially agree with you: I'm the first one to say "there's always a second side to a story". But I think right now the most important is to point the OP to the right direction for her and her husband and her daughter.
Exactly right.

And exactly right on me "showing" the exact opposite. I did that
for example only, as I was only supposing and not making "allegations".

But I respect my own comment and yours:
"Let me assist you, either you "pick a side" based on random comments, or you keep fair and neutral. But don't try to do both..."

I'd keep fair and neutral and "point the OP to the right direction for her and her husband and her daughter", as opposed to "chosing the side of her, or the husband's"...
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Old 16.12.2011, 14:12
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Re: Tough Divorce

Ok, I have to ask... Why has this been moved to off-topic? It's about marriage and divorce in Switzerland, and how to proceed in Switzerland.

Shouldn't it be in family matters?

I give up...
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Old 16.12.2011, 14:16
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Re: Tough Divorce

As there has already been a three year separation, there should be no need for an additional one, as I'm sure his lawyer will argue.

Tom
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Old 16.12.2011, 14:21
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Re: Tough Divorce

When someone is in a situation of violence, woman or man, I would never ever question their reasons or take sides. I will just try to provide the information they asked for.
I really wish you never understand what she is going trough because it will mean you are in the situation.
You make silly and stupid mistakes and desicions but when you finally get the courage to ask what to do, to ask for advise, people should not discourage you, because its just a fraction of time that you get the courage. If she asked for advise in a public forum and gets the feeling people would not believe her, she could also feel the authorities will not believe her and then do nothing about it.
I was lucky the day I came to EF and asked advice for a similar situation, people pointed me to the right direction and I was very lucky because now Im living a better life and my kids too. there is no more violence at home and we are day by day trying to make the best we can to be happy.

What I asked here was not to blame the guy and worship the woman, but to help her go in the right direction. If it was a man asking the same question my reaction would have been the same.

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You explain "there could be tons of reasons why not want a divorce", ask to be "neutral" (Dont judge her desicions) and yet you accused the man of abusing based on 1 "version" of 1 side of the 2 sides... (quoting that she said "she was verbally abused").

I am saying you are physically abusing me, people, believe me at all cost, ok?

Also what about the " left 3 years ago with our daughter to my home country " Is that not a kind of violence or abuse???
Leaving with the child away, privating the man from his rights, from seeing his child????

Yes, let me see, you're a woman, helping another poor victim woman...

And have the cheek to ask to be neutral...

That's what equals rights is about??



Hmm....

Let me assist you, either you "pick a side" based on random comments, or you keep fair and neutral. But don't try to do both...
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Old 16.12.2011, 14:29
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Re: Tough Divorce

Here are your options:

1) Get a divorce

2) Don't get a divorce

3) Ask a bunch of strangers on a forum what they think, then refer back to 1) or 2)

Personally, I have an issue with those that get abused (verbal or physical) and choose to stay. People that abuse have it in their DNA, it's in their demeanor and they're being selfish and showing no respect if they abuse. Such people are energy drainers at best and just thugs otherwise. There are enough people on this planet that have the ability to care, love and show tenderness that can show you what a true loving relationship could mean. We have a relatively short stay on this planet, why put up with idiots who don't respect you?

It's your call poster. Good luck and do the right thing.
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Old 16.12.2011, 14:37
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Re: Tough Divorce

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When someone is in a situation of violence, woman or man, I would never ever question their reasons or take sides. I will just try to provide the information they asked for.
I really wish you never understand what she is going trough because it will mean you are in the situation.
You make silly and stupid mistakes and desicions but when you finally get the courage to ask what to do, to ask for advise, people should not discourage you, because its just a fraction of time that you get the courage. If she asked for advise in a public forum and gets the feeling people would not believe her, she could also feel the authorities will not believe her and then do nothing about it.
I was lucky the day I came to EF and asked advice for a similar situation, people pointed me to the right direction and I was very lucky because now Im living a better life and my kids too. there is no more violence at home and we are day by day trying to make the best we can to be happy.

What I asked here was not to blame the guy and worship the woman, but to help her go in the right direction. If it was a man asking the same question my reaction would have been the same.
Fair enough, and thanks for the clarifications.

Unfortunately I read too many times false allegations against men in a relationship with children, that's why I kick in to remind that there's always 2 sides and that stereotyping works both ways. My shocking examples always prove that stereotyping is stupid and unfair.


What "helm" said ("But I think right now the most important is to point the OP to the right direction for her and her husband and her daughter.")should be the main thing to do as opposed to assume that the woman is a victim, just because "she said so"...


That's it,
The OP has the information she needed, regarding lawyer and all that.
And clarifications about "stereotyping" have been raised and understood.

All good!
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Old 16.12.2011, 15:07
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Re: Tough Divorce

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Personally, I have an issue with those that get abused (verbal or physical) and choose to stay.
Completely true, that is the rational response and a great advice IMO.

However, some of us are very irrational in certain moments, and, while we know deep inside that an abusive situation can only get worse, we blindly ignore our feelings and just go forward with the (false) hope that, one day, things will change for the better.

Also, some of us are afraid to go, for various reasons, one of which is the (false) perception that there is nowhere else to turn. Abuse is a multi-faceted beast, and one of its ugliest side is control. The longer someone allows his/her partner to control his/her life in such a way, the harder it becomes to break out of the vicious circle.

At the end, I agree with you that staying is a choice. That is exactly the problem - what I am saying is that someone in that situation might (wrongly) think they have no choice but to stay, that there is no way out. The important message, in this case, is IMO not to attack or blame who is staying, but to point out that there is, indeed, a way out. An abused person is entitled and should indeed receive all the support he/she can get, legal, financial, and even just a kind word to show that there are nice people out there.

To the OP: I am no lawyer, but I strongly second the comments regarding getting legal assistance. A quick Google search for "divorce Geneva" brought back these. What I would do, I would first go and ask someone in the city of Geneva (or the Canton Geneva court) for advice: from the website of the Pouvoir Judiciaire of Geneva (judicial and courts) there are a few links you can click, and it seems to me from a superficial read that there is the possibility of free assistance in some cases. At the most, I would think they could also point you to some legal resources and help you find legal cousel. Perhaps some EFers who live in the area or are in the field have better information. Good luck! P.S. if you need help with French, feel free to PM me.
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Old 16.12.2011, 16:23
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Re: Tough Divorce

I don't get this comment:

I don't mind moving back to Suisse but I have always been a stay at home mom.

So does this mean because you have always been staying at home (and not financially contributing) he should pay you to carry on staying at home?

I am also very wary of "Verbal Abuse", what does this mean in real terms? Could be the guy saying things which are totally legitimate and the woman not liking what she hears (the truth can hurt) or it could be the guy being really nasty and demeaning.

Don't assume the guy is guilty (of something) straight away.
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Old 16.12.2011, 16:53
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Re: Tough Divorce

If there's been a separation of more than two years, your husband can demand a divorce and get one.

Please get proper legal advice. We are only amateurs and can only speak from our own experiences and heresay. We don't know your real situation nor should we.

Get up the courage, contact the right people, be ready to go through the legal proceedings and be kind to yourself. It might finally be time to cut the strings and show the world you are a single Mom, ready for whatever is to come at you.

Good luck.
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