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  #861  
Old 10.12.2009, 17:12
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Economists are not there to "solve" problems, but explain problems and give them fancy names and keep the lay man from understanding them
"The function of an expert is not to be more right than other people,
but to be wrong for more sophisticated reasons." — David Butler.
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  #862  
Old 10.12.2009, 17:38
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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"The function of an expert is not to be more right than other people,
but to be wrong for more sophisticated reasons." — David Butler.
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One day, world would be Quoting me as well
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  #863  
Old 11.12.2009, 00:03
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Re: Ask a Scientist

Can we stay on topic please and not derail what's been a useful and informative thread so far

Cheers
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  #864  
Old 11.12.2009, 01:21
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Can we stay on topic please and not derail what's been a useful and informative thread so far

Cheers
Hold on a minute Nicky, this is exactly what I said when you deleted my post. If you want to police the forums then intervene at an appropriate time and don't act retrospectively when other members do it for you. I run a couple of high-profile messageboards and I know that with some people you have to be direct to get the message across. I don't think sugar-coating your message with generically-targetted smileys is any more effective than being direct with people
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  #865  
Old 11.12.2009, 09:24
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Hold on a minute Nicky, this is exactly what I said when you deleted my post. If you want to police the forums then intervene at an appropriate time and don't act retrospectively when other members do it for you. I run a couple of high-profile messageboards and I know that with some people you have to be direct to get the message across. I don't think sugar-coating your message with generically-targetted smileys is any more effective than being direct with people
And you are...?
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  #866  
Old 11.12.2009, 09:27
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Hold on a minute Nicky, this is exactly what I said when you deleted my post. If you want to police the forums then intervene at an appropriate time and don't act retrospectively when other members do it for you. I run a couple of high-profile messageboards and I know that with some people you have to be direct to get the message across. I don't think sugar-coating your message with generically-targetted smileys is any more effective than being direct with people
Wow, you're great, and very important.

I would have deleted this post as irrelevant garbage, but since the poster is so high-profile, I've thought twice about it.

Don't post off-topic crud like that. Thanks. Note lack of generically-targetted smileys.

Oh, for the benefit of those who can't see the deleted post, our Very Important Poster decided to use aggressive, abusive language towards another poster, and had his post deleted by another moderator (not Nicky).
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  #867  
Old 19.12.2009, 11:20
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Re: Ask a Scientist

OK. I have an "Englishman-abroad" themed question....

As many EFs will agree, a cup of tea has to be made with boiling, or near boiling water - it just doesn't taste the same with "hot water", one of the reasons, I think, that cups of tea bought or served in hotels, restaurants and coffee shops in Europe (quite generally) taste different.

1) What is the critical temperature needed to release the flavours we tea-lovers associate with our tea?

2) This is not as obvious as it sounds at first....I believe that I can tell immediately when I pick up a very hot kettle and pour the water onto the tea bag, whether it is near boiling (and will make good tea) or whether it has already cooled too much and it's going to be a wasted tea-bag! What I can't quite tell, is how I know. I don't think it is through sight (it may not really look different - unless the water is way-off the boil), I don't think it smells or sounds any different, and I'm not sure it "feels" different - though I do wonder if that could be my clue.

Perhaps it is simply a super-natural talent I have! How useless would that be?

Anyone else know what I mean - and any scientist care to offer a hypothesis?
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  #868  
Old 19.12.2009, 11:38
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Re: Ask a Scientist

Why does red wine become thinner with age and white wine becomes more viscous?
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  #869  
Old 19.12.2009, 11:47
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Why does red wine become thinner with age and white wine becomes more viscous?
Maybe the reason is, that during making red wine they do with whole grape, but with white one they do filters,.... Not sure however.

But to mention another thing about wine. the reason red wine glasses are more round than white one is that, red wine tastes stronger, therefore better to let the taste become a bit weaker in a bigger glass with more touch with air. But white wine is mild so no need to let the taste decrease. For the same reason red wines are often better to be opened for some minutes before serve.
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Old 19.12.2009, 12:32
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Maybe the reason is, that during making red wine they do with whole grape, but with white one they do filters,.... Not sure however.

But to mention another thing about wine. the reason red wine glasses are more round than white one is that, red wine tastes stronger, therefore better to let the taste become a bit weaker in a bigger glass with more touch with air. But white wine is mild so no need to let the taste decrease. For the same reason red wines are often better to be opened for some minutes before serve.
I appreciate your efforts but surely the point of this thread is that scientist respond and not people that are only guessing. You are wrong on how they make wine and how wine is tasted and your appraisal on why wine should be opened before serving is amusing.

I was more after why the molecular structure of red wine which is high in anthocyanin and polyphenols changes and breaks down when in white wine its seems to compound together.
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  #871  
Old 19.12.2009, 21:21
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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I appreciate your efforts but surely the point of this thread is that scientist respond and not people that are only guessing. You are wrong on how they make wine and how wine is tasted and your appraisal on why wine should be opened before serving is amusing.

I was more after why the molecular structure of red wine which is high in anthocyanin and polyphenols changes and breaks down when in white wine its seems to compound together.
Friendly reply there.

Nothing to do with the flavanols like proanthocyanidin; more to do with the fructose content, which is generally higher in white wines than in red. Higher fructose levels are positively correlated with viscosity. Evaporation would certainly increase the concentration of fructose and consequently the viscosity of the wine.

By the way, the previous poster was empirically correct about letting wines "breathe", and also about the inclusion of grape skins in red wine.
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  #872  
Old 19.12.2009, 21:41
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Friendly reply there.

Nothing to do with the flavanols like proanthocyanidin; more to do with the fructose content, which is generally higher in white wines than in red. Higher fructose levels are positively correlated with viscosity. Evaporation would certainly increase the concentration of fructose and consequently the viscosity of the wine.

By the way, the previous poster was empirically correct about letting wines "breathe", and also about the inclusion of grape skins in red wine.

The level of sugars have already been converted into alcohol and these are not implicated by the differences in colour. After all red wine does not automatically produce wines with higher levels of alcohol, this is a stylistic point and both lighter and higher alcohol reds lose weight as they age. Most wines are vinified dry and would contain less than 2-5 g/l of residual sugars.

Evaporations would effect both red and white wine equally and therefore can't explain the lightening of reds and the filling of whites.

Wines are not required to breath per se to enhance flavour and some older wines will suffer from prolonged exposure to oxygen. Again the relationship between oxygen and the volatily of the aromas are not linked to what was being asked.
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  #873  
Old 19.12.2009, 22:06
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Re: Ask a Scientist

1) Temperature is not the critical factor, rather time. If the water is too cold, of course you'll get nothing, but the infusion time is a greater driving force than the water temperature. Tea contains a large mix of chemicals that will all diffuse into the water, provided the teabag sits in the water for long enough. These chemicals have different flavours and different effects: the chemicals that are released later will by and large make you drowsy. It is common here to leave the teabag for longer: a cup of tea that has been sitting for over 5 minutes can make a good nightcap. This is completely different to the English way of drinking tea, but again, very common here. So the tea here can taste different here because the tea has been sitting for longer than what you are used to. And it isn't necessarily so that the water used is just hot but not boiling: it probably was boiling at first but has just cooled down because it was sitting for longer.

2) To be able to smell boiling water is perfectly reasonable. Water itself has no smell; but the impurities in water, such as calcium, do. As water gets hotter, vapour forms, containing trace amounts of these impurities, which you can then smell. When the water is boiling, vapour production goes into overdrive, throwing even more impurities into the air, and thus having a stronger smell.


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OK. I have an "Englishman-abroad" themed question....

As many EFs will agree, a cup of tea has to be made with boiling, or near boiling water - it just doesn't taste the same with "hot water", one of the reasons, I think, that cups of tea bought or served in hotels, restaurants and coffee shops in Europe (quite generally) taste different.

1) What is the critical temperature needed to release the flavours we tea-lovers associate with our tea?

2) This is not as obvious as it sounds at first....I believe that I can tell immediately when I pick up a very hot kettle and pour the water onto the tea bag, whether it is near boiling (and will make good tea) or whether it has already cooled too much and it's going to be a wasted tea-bag! What I can't quite tell, is how I know. I don't think it is through sight (it may not really look different - unless the water is way-off the boil), I don't think it smells or sounds any different, and I'm not sure it "feels" different - though I do wonder if that could be my clue.

Perhaps it is simply a super-natural talent I have! How useless would that be?

Anyone else know what I mean - and any scientist care to offer a hypothesis?
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  #874  
Old 20.12.2009, 00:51
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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I appreciate your efforts but surely the point of this thread is that scientist respond and not people that are only guessing. You are wrong on how they make wine and how wine is tasted and your appraisal on why wine should be opened before serving is amusing.

I was more after why the molecular structure of red wine which is high in anthocyanin and polyphenols changes and breaks down when in white wine its seems to compound together.
Thanx 4 ur not guessing, but some copy pastes:
"The main difference between red and white wine is that grape juice used to make red wine contains skins, seeds, and stems. This is significant for the following reason: leaving juice to mix together with the woody bits (known as maceration) causes the finished product to contain tannins. Tannins can lend a wonderful complexity to a red wine. As a general rule of thumb, red wines are heavier and more complex than white wines. White wines are usually a good place for beginners to start because they are initially more palatable to novices since they often tend to be sweeter"
Therfore I recommend you start with white wine.

"When white wine is made, the skins of the grapes are separated from the juice when they are put into a crushing machine. "

"The main difference between red and white wines is the amount of tannins they have. Since tannins largely come from the grape skins, red wines have more of them than white wines. Red wine acquires it's tannins in the process of maceration (leaving juice to mix together with the skin, seeds and woody bits). It is the tannins and skins of the red grapes which are released into the wine that contribute to the deep color and flavor of red wine. Tannins have a slightly bitter taste and create a dry puckery sensation in the mouth and in the back of the throat; and often lend a wonderful complexity to red wine. They also help preserve the wine. This is why red wines are usually aged longer than white wines."

"Glasses for red wine are characterized by their rounder, wider bowl, which increases the rate of oxidization. As oxygen from the air chemically interacts with the wine, flavor and aroma are subtly altered. This process of oxidization is generally more compatible with red wines, whose complex flavors are smoothed out after being exposed to air"

And last but not the least you can modify your signature to Wining instead of whining
Cheers!
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  #875  
Old 20.12.2009, 10:22
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Thanx 4 ur not guessing, but some copy pastes:
"The main difference between red and white wine is that grape juice used to make red wine contains skins, seeds, and stems. This is significant for the following reason: leaving juice to mix together with the woody bits (known as maceration) causes the finished product to contain tannins. Tannins can lend a wonderful complexity to a red wine. As a general rule of thumb, red wines are heavier and more complex than white wines. White wines are usually a good place for beginners to start because they are initially more palatable to novices since they often tend to be sweeter"
Therfore I recommend you start with white wine.

"When white wine is made, the skins of the grapes are separated from the juice when they are put into a crushing machine. "

"The main difference between red and white wines is the amount of tannins they have. Since tannins largely come from the grape skins, red wines have more of them than white wines. Red wine acquires it's tannins in the process of maceration (leaving juice to mix together with the skin, seeds and woody bits). It is the tannins and skins of the red grapes which are released into the wine that contribute to the deep color and flavor of red wine. Tannins have a slightly bitter taste and create a dry puckery sensation in the mouth and in the back of the throat; and often lend a wonderful complexity to red wine. They also help preserve the wine. This is why red wines are usually aged longer than white wines."

"Glasses for red wine are characterized by their rounder, wider bowl, which increases the rate of oxidization. As oxygen from the air chemically interacts with the wine, flavor and aroma are subtly altered. This process of oxidization is generally more compatible with red wines, whose complex flavors are smoothed out after being exposed to air"

And last but not the least you can modify your signature to Wining instead of whining
Cheers!
Never heard the skins and and the stalks called woody bits before but your are right red wine do generally have more tannins than whites, although in oaked white wine they do occur and are often described as phenolics.

Tannins are only part of the story of why a wine ages, there needs to be a lots more than just tannin in a wine to make ageing possible and it should be noted that there are many examples of white wine that has the ability to age as long as any red. Vouvray, Champagne, Sauternes and German Riesling have all been know to last over a hundred year.

I am full versed in the production methods of wine but how oxygen can react with it to enhance and spoil its aromas and flavours. I also understand the complexity of micro or hyper oxygenation to help stablise red wine and the way in which the tannins and texture of a red wine disapates and becomes lighter (linked to the tannin structure as the body fades so does the tannins) but have never seen a sensible solution as to why white wines seem to develop viscosity as they ages.

Even oaked Chardonnays which can see the same levels of skin contact as some red and would be put into new Oak with the same high levels of tannins rarely become leaner like a red would as it ages but tends to become fuller in body like other whites.

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And last but not the least you can modify your signature to Wining instead of whining
Cheers!
This was always meant to be a play on words
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  #876  
Old 23.12.2009, 04:02
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Re: Ask a Scientist

Why have ice ages occured?

Edward J. Cunningham
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  #877  
Old 23.12.2009, 13:55
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Why have ice ages occured?
Because it got cold.
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  #878  
Old 23.12.2009, 14:04
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Because it got cold.
That's stupid, surely its got something to do with leaving a fridge door open.
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  #879  
Old 23.12.2009, 14:14
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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That's stupid, surely its got something to do with leaving a fridge door open.
That's a common misconception. Fridges actually work because they contain a small piece of the ice age.
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  #880  
Old 23.12.2009, 14:17
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Re: Ask a Scientist

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Why have ice ages occured?
Dinosaurs didn't use enough fossil fuels or chop down enough trees. They neglected to use the resources they had to globally warm their planet.
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