this line is truly classic, although my Swedish grandfather could have used a bra and he was not particularly quick of foot.

Is there a women available I need a coffee

LOL - just spotted that...damn you iPad autocorrect!

As a woman, I wasn't sure whether to post this, but here goes.
I have been here for nearly 19 years now and have seen many things.

The OP may be slightly on the extreme, but I believe he has a point.
Emancipation has gone slightly mad here - taken to extremes much more than in the UK, for example.
I know some husbands who suffer abuse from their 'strong' emancipated wives here and many others who feel emasculated.
Women have felt put down here in CH for years - and this was true in the past - but to go to the other extreme is also wrong.
As a man, don't offer to help a Swiss woman on the train here as you are likely to get a handbag round the head and told you're a pervert.
Sorry, but I know decent guys who have had such experiences.

Oh - and Annabelle magazine (the only Swiss women's magazine available) makes me want to vomit with its advertising full of naked, pouting women and it's articles on men bashing.

Seems like I missed a good day on the forum, frolicking around Franz Carl Weber.

1) There is a pay inequity here, especially under the nurses I know- the men get paid more. There is less of an inequity amongst the bankers I know, though it may be because the girl-bankers are a little more strong of spirit, able to defend themselves in a pay negotiation round. A good nurse is typically one who thinks a lot of other people, and certainly wouldn't be in the job for the money, no? And all the male nurses I know, do actually have a family to support. It may be because the work environment. Who knows.

2) Please don't bite the new boy in the bollocks just for voicing an opinion, we want more of these not less. Granted he is Australian- he may not know any better Remember that the people on this forum are not a correct demographic representation of the Swiss = they are not your average Swiss person. If you want to see what it is like, you have to visit. And read through the threads of the lack of vegemite, customer service (as we know it- you don't go at a Swiss person all guns blazing, asking them to help you, like my Sydney relatives do, while I hide behind a lamppost), different queue ethics etc. But again, this forum is all a slanted view.

3) Women are different here than in Australia. Your average Seeedney Sheeeeela (translate: Sydney girl) wouldn't last long amongst the locals... Granted you also get the street-wise city-types, but most folk are a little more gentile and harder to get to know.

I live in a conservative, catholic area of the country. Most Swiss mothers here do not work are not in paid employment. And most women here are mothers. Suffice to say, most women in this area are not in paid employment.. and if they are, it is certainly not more than 50%, else they get classed as a "Rabenmutter" (Raven mother= something really bad). To say they are "equal" to their husbands, and have equal rights... well.. I am not in a position to make a judgement call on this.

Up until recently there were a number of women in predominant political positions, and there is a call in some companies to incorporate more women into senior management. I don't think that this will hinder your ability to find a job here. What might, is the current economical environment. But there are still a lot of jobs out there: check this out: www.jobs.ch.

[QUOTE=Leni;1483737]As a woman, I wasn't sure whether to post this, but here goes.
I have been here for nearly 19 years now and have seen many things.

The OP may be slightly on the extreme, but I believe he has a point.
Emancipation has gone slightly mad here - taken to extremes much more than in the UK, for example.

Oh - and Annabelle magazine (the only Swiss women's magazine available) makes me want to vomit with its advertising full of naked, pouting women and it's articles on men bashing.[/QUOTE]
I think I have to Subscribe to this magazine something for my eyes and for a good laugh

Thank goodness for that! There are some really negative, bitter people on these forums, who seem to enjoy attacking those for their opinions. You're right, i'm asking in the wrong place. Most of the people here are probably the types i'm trying to get away from in Australia.

Great, this is exactly what i'm trying to get away from. Judging by the responses here, i'm guessing most of them are either from the UK, US, or even Australia.

Anyway, looks like I've got my answer - asking on a forum with immigrants was pointless. Thank you to those few who actually responded in a positive manner without the aggression, or personal attacks. I certainly hope that the native swiss women aren't like this.

I'm done here.

I'm offended that you didn't mention the Middle East. ;p

Really? Don't you think these experiences might be more accurate, if anything, in terms of the experience you're likely to have as an immigrant?

I think maybe you're really defensive here and I guess that can happen when you have a lot of people disagreeing with you. I'd like to see what you thought was groan-worthy about my post, as I don't know where you'd find it aggressive or akin to a personal attack.

If you can't take the heat...no seriously: How long has the internet been around? Twenty years? How long have forums existed? Almost as long? How long have you been using the internet? Did you honestly think in the depths of your heart that you were NOT asking a trollish question? What kind of outcome did you expect posting something sexist? Are you really that thick (my answer, yes probably)?

As far as your cheap shot about native Swiss women, I shudder to think of any womenfolk that get caught up with you (and before you bingo me with "she's great and has a mind of her own", I say to you "people who say 'I'm not racist, I have black friends' are still racist"). I'm done here too. *flounces out*

I read your first post wondering what was behind it and where it was going. I read this and start to form 2 opinions.

1. The fact that women are paid less than men in the same job categories is well documented in numerous studies. It's really surprising to see you talking about gender equality while making such a statement.
2. The totality of what you've written leads me to think you have some underlying issues, which you have not said, that have shaped your current way of thinking and you are out looking to find men of a similar mindset

For me it all calls into question the real reason for your post and, despite your "reasoned" attempt to start the discussion, what you are really trying to achieve here

Oooooo a good old equality debate, love it!!!
I shall sit back and watch whilst me sheila gets the beers in

Dunno about @Leni but I say "get it yourself!"

Mr Cannut always makes me laugh

It is rather interesting, i would imagine that the start point of the question is that men have been in overpowering situation in the pas,t and now when it is actually getting to more equal; there is this feeling of woman threatening us and been given so much of special rights that they do get over the men..

I haven't been for too long in Switzerland, but when speaking with fellow women from finland, it is obvious that they find this ideology of one parent (usually mother) staying at home rather annoying, would it be in finland, the kid would go to kindergarden and mother would be back in work in one to two years of time maximum. But lets say; the schooling system doesn't really support the other parent working either, with system expecting that there is parent at home at lunch time or at day when the youngest of folks get out from school.. or to think the high costs of daycare.. It does sum up to many different things.

What comes to breast cancer, according to my assumption, and what i have tried to follow, there is equally research work done for prostrate cancer, no?

For the salaries also; I would say and back up, what's been said before, that it is not a new thing to say that it is widely known that man get paid more, i mean generally i have come up to see how even right in the beginning, men are offered more than their counterpart when starting a job, been just graduated. Maybe men are more courageous also asking for more?

Not to speak of the voting rights of women.. for example.

I mean for sure there are issues, we cannot say that only men are abusive; for sure not, it is true that abusive women do exist but i would guess why those are not talked so widely is that in numbers; they are less, if we look at the criminal statistics, there are more men there in serious crimes than women. Maybe this is down to biology? And to say so, i am not saying that all men are cold and not caring, just something that statistics show when we go to look at extremes a little bit more.

--

We are all decent people (hopefully), and i like to think that most people of this age, these things are not big issues really, maybe we have just come by with wrong people on our paths to think otherwise or we are looking from different perspective. It is easy to look and feel that 'man, others are getting so much more,' but lets just look the point from which we are coming from, the original setting that has shaped our views and then base our views of right and wrong, more or less, here and there.. They do say that the grass is always greener on the other side. I mean, if it would of been different lets say 40 years ago, we would not of go through such issues so much anymore in these days. And i would imagine after 40 years, such topics are hopefully forgotten, because the young people have grown up in different environment, in so their ideas of the world are different also, thats how it goes from generation to generation.

On a more serious note : we need Plumbers,Iron Worker,Sheet Metal Worker,Pipe Fitters ,Carpenters,Roofers,Block and Prick Layers,etc etc .Good news is boys and girls getting payed the same money ,bad news is you getting dirty

Oh Mr Cannut - you just get better and better!

what more evidence is required to demonstrate the superiority of men?

huh? what are you saying here?

I am sorry Leni I don`t mean to

Conspiracy.