....on your first couple of days in your new home, or maybe even before you move in. You just want to meet people, get a sense of the place, see what the locals do, what kind of vibe there is....

So you walk up to a group at the bar who are watching a game of football and you buy yourself a beer and you tell them that you are a fan of one of the teams but you don't really like that new player they bought - just to start a conversation.

Imagine that they all look at you and say "yeah....we talked about him yesterday, you should have been here then, we don't want to talk about it again" and then turned their backs.

And then you ask them what the local shops are like for buying food - is it best to go to the big supermarket in town, or are the local shops any good? Just think about the difference between being told to look at the local supermarket website or being told "Actually, Bill over there is the local butcher - he's great and really friendly. Let's go over now - I'll introduce you"

Sometimes - I think that EF should be like the local bar for people who are here in Switzerland or want to live here. There will always be the locals gathered around the proverbial bar, talking nonsense and cracking in-jokes that it takes a while to understand and join in with. And maybe its because I mod now so tend to look at more of the intro threads looking for spammers etc....or maybe its a change of tone here....but it feels like we have become a little less welcoming to the people who walk in.

I certainly have done so in the past, so I'm not claiming to be anything close to perfect, but maybe before posting something like "Not another American who hasn't done research" or "Will you just search before you post?" - maybe we should all think about whether its the kind of welcome that we would have wanted. People sign up, get their account and just excitedly post something without always thinking....maybe that instead of an eyeroll, we should post that helpful link, or point them towards that member we know has an expertise....

Lastly - I'm not suggesting that there will never be a case where we give people the brush off...."Hello. How can I start a business?" etc is never going to get a good reception, but I think that when people appear to be genuinely excited to be coming or here, maybe we should just try to be a little more welcoming...after all, they don't know that they are the 46th person this week to be coming from the same place. To them, they are unique and special and their move is a huge change.

Anyway.....I'm personally going to make more of an effort in this regard and just wanted to share my thoughts

(This is a non-moderator message...just my personal thoughts. And I know its in Introductions. And it isn't one. But it's about them. So there)

If you used the search function, you will see this has already been discussed.

So it took an elevation of superiority in the forum for you to finally see what some of us have seen from the very beginning and continue to see and rebel against.

It's very refreshing to read this and fair play for you to bring it out in the open.

And imagine if you then started visiting the other pub in the village from time to time but the bar staff and regulars at the first pub made it very clear that they thought that you were being disloyal and that you weren't really welcome anymore.

Now that would be really pathetic wouldn't it?

I don't care what everybody else says, I think you are hilarious

..and imagine if that on entering everyone was given a full menu and price list from which they could search - but when getting to the bar asked what they served and how much it was?

.... or walk up to the bar, ask how much a drink costs and then try to sell you a cupboard?

This isn't real life, it's a forum.

As such, one can go back in time and re-join the conversation that happened yesterday (by adding to THAT thread instead of starting a duplicate).

Currently, EF is a mess and is full of virtually identical "I live in the US and looked up Switzerland in my atlas and now want to live there" posts wich then get filled with the same answers.

To re-use your analogy it would be like walking into the snug bar next to the sports bar and demanding to talk about football, then being pissed off that people suggest you go next door.

Oh, and is this your introduction? Welcome to the forum.

Point taken.

What if the guy you used to talk for years shows up back to the old pub in a fresh new outfit, new face and make up and pretend to be a new guy but is in fact the old buddy who doesn't want you to know it is him and you find out?

You'll be happy to see him back but might be upset he pretends to be someone else?

Ok, ok, I'll get my coat.

What is this other forum of which thou speaketh?

Knowest thou not that there shall be no forum but The Forum and The Local shall make it's profit?

I agree with everything you say.....my point isn't that the new members shouldn't use all the resources and shouldn't be pointed in the right direction - of course not everything should be repeated for each new poster....my point is more about HOW we do it. As I say, posting a helpful link in a nice way is just a more welcoming way of doing it, rather than a slightly sneering "Oh, not another one" type of reply which gets giggles from the locals but makes the new person feel silly

PS If this wasn't my thread, I'd move the comments about other forums to their own thread as they are not connected to the purpose of this thread which is about how we deal with new members. But I shouldn't moderate my own thread.

The cynic in me wants to ask: if they are so special, why do they think that coming to a forum full of expats will provide them with an answer?

Answer: they aren't special and it's all been done before... and posted on before...

My experience has been that most people will take the time to answer thought-out questions vs. the "where's a good place to buy brown sugar in Sweden" ones.

Let's see how long your New Year's resolution lasts...

Actually GG, be fair. Not everyone has been like that, only a "clique" of folks (ironic, huh?) and this would also happen IRL too.

Off topic!

Shouldn't this be in daily life?

I think it also depends on the attitude of the newbie.

If somebody is genuinely confused and overwhelmed then people are far more likely to explain the basics over and over again than if you get your arrogant "I'm a managment consultant making xxxK per year but I'm too lazy to use Google so answer my questions now" type.

Forgot my gloves,

I have an other one. What if a girl who used to be in the pub for years and what such a wonderful person but leave because the crowd pissed her of and goes to the next pub and trash talk about her old friends? When she comes back, you'll be happy she changed her mind but because it is a small village after all, everybody know everything and you know how mean she has been about you and your friends....

A smile, an apology would be better than coming back in the pub just to moan again about the old stuff, no?

I think people are always ready to forgive in this pub, which is nice. To forget, no so much but one can just pass to something else and be truly happy the friend came back with a sincere smile.

What about the fact the new pub was setup by one of the old pub's previous barmen - who set up his pub to look exactly like the old pub - and took the names of all the customers he wanted to serve?



And what if the locals of the old pub liked "tourists" coming in as they provide entertainment?

I'm always welcoming and embracing unless of course somebody asks me about salary expectations, availability of brown sugar and wants to sell car at radiculous price...

If this is like a virtual pub - free beer anyone

All - this is Caviar's "try to be nicer and more fluffy for 2013" thread (the poor deluded fellow). Please can you keep your discussions on other forums off this thread. If you really feel hard done by (looking at you, grumpy) start your own thread with valid points. I'll remove all the off topic posts from here otherwise. Thanks!

I agree with the general point of the OP.

But it's hard to generalise. It really depends on how the newbie asks the question, and what they are concerned about. If people sound serious, and have obviously done some research but have a specific question that's a bit unusual, most of us are polite and helpful. Or if they appear vulnerable, or anxious, as you sometimes get with new mums. It also helps if they just appear to be friendly and excited, and to want to be one of the gang.

What irritates most people is getting asked questions for which there are simple answers if people bothered to look them up.

And then there are the ones that just sound more like an attempt to have a conversation during a boring rainy Saturday afternoon: "I'm thinking about moving to Switzerland from the USA. Any advice?" You suspect this is an idea that arrived in their heads half an hour earlier, and will leave a half hour later.

But all that said, I try (not always successfully) to help if I feel like helping, and to say nothing if I don't. There is rarely a need to be downright rude and hostile or clever-dickish, and when the temptation appears, it's best to just ignore.

As long as they don't put a huge pile of 10ps on the pool table and refuse to understand the concepot of winners stays on, saying that they just want to play their girlfriend. What do they think that little blackboard is for, eh? It's not for drawing bloody lovehearts on, I'll tell you that for nothing.

Bastards!

If this is where you lot are taking the analogy....I'm dreading what will happen when Wolli logs in