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Old 29.07.2010, 16:32
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Sure it is wrong, cant see any reason why anyone would do it. I think parents who cut their kids, they should be fined plus they should pay a compensation for the Child.
At least kids should have the right to sue their parents if they were circumcised during childhood.
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Old 29.07.2010, 16:34
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Don't eyebrows do some important things, like stopping perspiration dribbling into one's eyes and also allowing one to frown emphatically or express surprise?
Economisto does not show expression. His face is stale as he chops off foreskins and ear lobes for pleasure, to remove pleasure.
  #263  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:35
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Sure it is wrong, cant see any reason why anyone would do it. I think parents who cut their kids, they should be fined plus they should pay a compensation for the Child.
At least kids should have the right to sue their parents if they were circumcised during childhood.
I've been more affected by that time my Mother told me 'Have a chocolate chip cookie' and they weren't chocolate chips...they were raisins!

The court case is ongoing.
  #264  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:36
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Then you misunderstand evolution. Evolution will keep body parts around where they're not needed any longer if they do not cause inefficiency towards preproduction (including finding a mate, feeding the kids etc). Like the eyebrows or appendix.
Hmmm, sorry, extraneous parts may well play a part in or be part of evolution, even if we do not yet currently know the reason why. To say body parts are not needed any longer says to me "I am stumped, just cant find a bloody use for this appendix/eyebrow/little toe etc", or they may well be on their way out, appendix / little toe etc.

It just seems so senseless to even contemplate it... I mean, when was it even first considered ? Way back in the hack-it-off-it's-infected days. Sure , but we have progressed medically, we have sanitation/hygiene/anti-biotics/education now. Trouble is , religion being based on old scriptures , and these are never updated , they remain in the dark ages. We should re-interpret them with our modern knowledge. if we re-wrote the Bible today, in modern language, addressed to a modern audience it would make a lot more sense to us. So would "Thou shalt wash thy willy every day, and play nicely with it" rather than "Thou must chop thy willy end bit off lest it become unclean because soap hasn't been invented yet"
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Old 29.07.2010, 16:36
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Then you misunderstand evolution. Evolution will keep body parts around where they're not needed any longer if they do not cause inefficiency towards preproduction (including finding a mate, feeding the kids etc). Like the eyebrows or appendix.
Dont be so quick to dismiss the eyebrows. Some people make a career out of them.



Now back to ding dongs..
  #266  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:38
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Just because something is an area of scientific study doesn't mean someone can't have an opinion on it.

People find different things more or less pleasurable do they not? Comparing the pleasure of one thing versus another is subjective.
You said:

"Saying someone has more pleasure with a foreskin than without is purely subjective"

This indicates that you don't think you can have a scientific study of this (as science is about objectivity).

Of course you can have a subjective approach as well (see what I wrote about phenonemology and earlobes) and all the opinions you might care to muster.
  #267  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:40
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I think the title of the thread should be changed to:

Chop my foreskin or wash my willy?
  #268  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:41
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I think the title of the thread should be changed to:

Chop my foreskin or wash my willy?

In the jobs offerred section ?
  #269  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:42
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Hmmm, sorry, extraneous parts may well play a part in or be part of evolution, even if we do not yet currently know the reason why. To say body parts are not needed any longer says to me "I am stumped, just cant find a bloody use for this appendix/eyebrow/little toe etc", or they may well be on their way out, appendix / little toe etc.
They may, but they certainly don't have to. (or do you believe in intelligent design?)

Evolution selects against things that hinder, but there are plenty of 'neutral' changes that continue because there's no advantage to weeding them out.

That being said this is obviously an emotional issue here. Imagine my surprise when I arrived in Switzerland and learned that some sheep actually have long tails.
  #270  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:43
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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You said:

"Saying someone has more pleasure with a foreskin than without is purely subjective"

This indicates that you don't think you can have a scientific study of this (as science is about objectivity).

Of course you can have a subjective approach as well (see what I wrote about phenonemology and earlobes) and all the opinions you might care to muster.
It would be an objective study on people's subjective pleasure? I guess you could measure some brain waves. I don't know anything about measuring pleasure or pain though with probes etc though so I couldn't comment.

But on an individual scale the pleasure would be of that person's opinion and therefore subjective. I don't know if the measurements a neuroscientist would do would vary between each person or how accurate they would be?
  #271  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:44
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I think the title of the thread should be changed to:

Chop my foreskin or wash my willy?
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In the jobs offerred section ?
Dont forget to add the poll.
  #272  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:44
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Of course I didn't mention the role of eyebrows in sex. But I get the feeling that given you don't care about the role of foreskin in sex, you wouldn't care about this either.
  #273  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:47
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Of course I didn't mention the role of eyebrows in sex. But I get the feeling that given you don't care about the role of foreskin in sex, you wouldn't care about this either.
You think eyebrows increase sexual pleasure?
  #274  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:48
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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It would be an objective study on people's subjective pleasure? I guess you could measure some brain waves. I don't know anything about measuring pleasure or pain though with probes etc though so I couldn't comment.

But on an individual scale the pleasure would be of that person's opinion and therefore subjective. I don't know if the measurements a neuroscientist would do would vary between each person or how accurate they would be?
Your subjective opinion comes from objective factors in the brain. We could go in circles forever with line of reasoning.

Let's stick to objective numbers and logical arguments otherwise every post is subjective and then we might as well just bash each other with bats, which I must say does sound appealing at this point given that we're being all tribal and all.
  #275  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:49
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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You think eyebrows increase sexual pleasure?
Oh I pity your sexual partners.
  #276  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:52
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I think the title of the thread should be changed to:

Chop my foreskin or wash my willy?
Some people don't have to choose between them.

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Economisto does not show expression. His face is stale as he chops off foreskins and ear lobes for pleasure, to remove pleasure.
I, like blind people, can retain intuitive social skills without eyebrow study.

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At least kids should have the right to sue their parents if they were circumcised during childhood.
They can, just unsuccessfully. You have to prove manifest harm, and no one's been able to do that yet. For good reason (as discussed).

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Agreed.

Except it would not be anachronistic.

Circumcision arose in the middle east back when they needed a belief in a god to justify the world around them and possibly at a time when there was much disease (why the obsession with pigs, bottom feeders, foreskin).

On the other hand, trying to look pretty is still with us.
Well, firstly, everything that's thousands of years old was done for various religious purposes originally...including piercings. It's precisely as anachronistic as circumcision and religion in general.

Also, you try eating pork and shellfish in the desert without refridgeration...practical tips, not religious ones.
  #277  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:54
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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It would be an objective study on people's subjective pleasure? I guess you could measure some brain waves. I don't know anything about measuring pleasure or pain though with probes etc though so I couldn't comment.

But on an individual scale the pleasure would be of that person's opinion and therefore subjective. I don't know if the measurements a neuroscientist would do would vary between each person or how accurate they would be?
Of course the battle between subjective experience and emprical evidence is a classic of philosophy of science and philosophy of mind. A neuroscientific approach is one way to practically meet the problem. although arguably you're still not getting any closer to subjective experience: Compare saying 'ouch' and being in pain, which is the observation of some synapses in action closer to?

Nevertheless science often investigates individual experience through all kinds of response tests and subject questioning.

I'd never say that a subjective enquiry should be discounted . . . but you, on the other hand, seem to ruling out any kind of scientific investigation. How would research into effective analgesia be possible . . . that obviously elides any philophical concerns over the subject's privileged experience of pain.
  #278  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:55
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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we might as well just bash each other with bats
Not the eyebrows! Don't touch the eyebrows!
  #279  
Old 29.07.2010, 16:56
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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but there are plenty of 'neutral' changes that continue because there's no advantage to weeding them out.
They are on the 'to-do' list. If not , then they have a purpose we have yet to discover.
  #280  
Old 29.07.2010, 17:02
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Of course the battle between subjective experience and emprical evidence is a classic of philosophy of science and philosophy of mind. A neuroscientific approach is one way to practically meet the problem. although arguably you're still not getting any closer to subjective experience: Compare saying 'ouch' and being in pain, which is the observation of some synapses in action closer to?

Nevertheless science often investigates individual experience through all kinds of response tests and subject questioning.

I'd never say that a subjective enquiry should be discounted . . . but you, on the other hand, seem to ruling out any kind of scientific investigation. How would research into effective analgesia be possible . . . that obviously elides any philophical concerns over the subject's privileged experience of pain.
I'm not ruling out any scietific investiagtion and I was wrong to say it is purely subjective. I'm man enough to say when I'm wrong

In the context of this thread everyone is giving their subjective opinions.
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