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Old 29.07.2010, 17:08
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I think we can safely conclude that, scientific studies and reasonings only matter when they agree with our personal "opinions" otherwise they are equally questionable.

Pleasure can be purely subjective, not objective, unless there are objective ways to measure it.

If there's no harm associated with circumcision than it should be a matter of choice for the individuals or their responsible parents.
  #282  
Old 29.07.2010, 17:08
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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In the context of this thread everyone is giving their subjective opinions.
Well of course an EF thread isn't a scientific investigation!

But we were discussing whether a scientific evaluation of the pleasure to be gained from retaining the foreskin was possible.
  #283  
Old 29.07.2010, 17:14
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I think we can safely conclude that, scientific studies and reasonings only matter when they agree with our personal "opinions" otherwise they are equally questionable.

Pleasure can be purely subjective, not objective, unless there are objective ways to measure it.

If there's no harm associated with circumcision than it should be a matter of choice for the individuals or their responsible parents.
Well there is certainly no harm to all the people getting worked up in this thread
  #284  
Old 29.07.2010, 17:15
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Maybe we should change the name to, 'Round heads Vs Cavaliers', I'm pretty sure Economisto is missing something that I'm not... lol
  #285  
Old 29.07.2010, 17:27
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Woah. Didn't expect this when I revided that old thread. I guess it's still a touchy subject for some, like abortion, huh?

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Don't do it. What I wouldn't pay to get mine back! It's just madness to numb and impair the function of someone's sex organ for cosmetic purposes.

There's a big movement against it now:
http://nocirc.org/
What would you pay to get it back? I'm sure a willing donor can be arranged...for the right price

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Medically and hygienically? I believe its right, loads of published studies show the benefits.
Any studies pulished disputing the results? I couldn't help noticing one or two things about those studies...

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I dunno. Genital herpes affects about 20% of the population. Breast cancer is closer to 10%. .
Surely the big C is a bit more serious?

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Studies have shown that there ain't that much pleasure derived from your foreskin either.
Sorry to have to tell you this bud, but I can have endless pleasure having my foreskin pulled back, then forward, then back again, even doing it myself, on occasion, for instance when I need a piss.

Sorry, I don't mean to gloat, but it's true...

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We'd also need a women with the same tightness of vagina I'd imagine. Is there a way to measure that?
I guess so...


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<sigh> but is there proof that chopping the ear off would help reduce the risk?
Ask Chopper

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Oh God....she's been stabbed in the side of the head for no reason and without her consent all as part of an anachronistic cultural stereotype. Cruel, vindictive, disgusting and shameful.
I agree with you. And also a bit tacky. Like prepubescent girls wearing high heels, short skirts and make up. Where are the fathers, these days?

Anyway, back to the subject

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They may, but they certainly don't have to. (or do you believe in intelligent design?)
I do, I just wish God did.
  #286  
Old 29.07.2010, 17:49
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Maybe we should change the name to, 'Round heads Vs Cavaliers', I'm pretty sure Economisto is missing something that I'm not... lol
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Sorry to have to tell you this bud, but ...
Sorry, I don't mean to gloat, but it's true...
Mods, can we please have a TMI button?
  #287  
Old 29.07.2010, 18:03
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Maybe we should change the name to, 'Round heads Vs Cavaliers', I'm pretty sure Economisto is missing something that I'm not... lol
NVQ Level 2 in Critical Thinking? Congrats, I heard its not an easy get.
  #288  
Old 29.07.2010, 18:10
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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.

Also, you try eating pork and shellfish in the desert without refridgeration...practical tips, not religious ones.
Exactly, and not needed today just like circumcision.

We are done. Where's the beer?
  #289  
Old 29.07.2010, 18:22
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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NVQ Level 2 in Critical Thinking? Congrats, I heard its not an easy get.
I think it is time that we both stopped being purposely obtuse and facetious in our arguing, there is common ground that we both agree on and areas in which we probably don't, but the water is being muddied by our mud slinging tactics. Continuously inferring that I am an idiot because I advocate fairness and left wing ideals is getting quite tiresome. I agree not to belittle any of your comments I deem small minded, and you must promise to be civil towards me, deal?
  #290  
Old 29.07.2010, 19:15
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I'm with Kramer on this one

  #291  
Old 29.07.2010, 20:33
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Doesn't it make it look bigger? Yeaaaaaaaaah I don't need that
When people start arguing on this subject -- and especially when they start ad hominem insults or when Godwin's Law proves itself true once again -- I point out that "wouldn't every mom like her son to grow up to be a porn star?", circumcision being, I am told, the norm in that genre.

What I do know (having had to address the legal issue once) is that circumcision is a female-, i.e. a mother-driven issue. And as a noted California paediatrician told me, decided more on cosmetic and less on public health grounds. More's the pity.

But then courts not infrequently -- but usually in divorce and child custody matters -- have to decide what will be the religion of a child of a mixed marriage. Not a nice task for a judge to be faced with.

Not on topic, but illustrative of how family law cases can be tragic: http://groups.google.com/group/soc.c...20dda038edae6f (attempt to annul an adoption based on error of religion)

In the USA the circumcision rate has varied over time, but is more than half and less than 2/3 of infant boys; more in the East than the West. (I know that from an information sheet handed out to new parents by the U.S. military.) No other country other than predominantly Muslim countries or Israel come closes to that rate.

It is said, if you read the literature on JSTOR, that the Victorians promoted circumcision as a means of countering masturbation. (But then, wasn't that the reason for the Boy Scouts as well?) In recent years the revival has been on account of its HIV resistance. Sadly, few other than scientists can address the question dispassionately, disinterestedly.

Switzerland, I think, has been outside the scope of the above. But perhaps Godwin's law still applies. Let's see.
  #292  
Old 30.07.2010, 14:28
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Mods, can we please have a TMI button?
As if you didn't already know...
  #293  
Old 30.07.2010, 15:23
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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As if you didn't already know...
Again, TMI... really.
  #294  
Old 30.07.2010, 15:58
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Of course the battle between subjective experience and emprical evidence is a classic of philosophy of science and philosophy of mind. A neuroscientific approach is one way to practically meet the problem. although arguably you're still not getting any closer to subjective experience: Compare saying 'ouch' and being in pain, which is the observation of some synapses in action closer to?

Nevertheless science often investigates individual experience through all kinds of response tests and subject questioning.

I'd never say that a subjective enquiry should be discounted . . . but you, on the other hand, seem to ruling out any kind of scientific investigation. How would research into effective analgesia be possible . . . that obviously elides any philophical concerns over the subject's privileged experience of pain.
  #295  
Old 30.07.2010, 18:14
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I don't know any guy who's been circumcised when he was a baby who complained about it, ever.

They are actually proud of the look of their penis and most women loves it too.

But in Canada, we are barbarian, we do holes in our baby girls ears...
  #296  
Old 30.07.2010, 18:16
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I don't know any guy who's been circumcised when he was a baby who complained about it, ever.

They are actually proud of the look of their penis and most women loves it too.

But in Canada, we are barbarian, we do holes in our baby girls ears...

You stab them in the head!?!

No, actually I've never heard of a circumcision complaint either.
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Old 30.07.2010, 18:23
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I don't know any guy who's been circumcised when he was a baby who complained about it, ever.

They are actually proud of the look of their penis and most women loves it too.
Now there's some reliable and conclusive stats.

What hair colour are we sporting today, btw?
  #298  
Old 30.07.2010, 18:25
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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But in Canada, we are barbarian, we do holes in our baby girls ears...
You are not qualified to speak for a whole nation. Too bad Harper and his conservatives are getting rid of the long census; otherwise, we could get some real stats on the issue at hand.
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Old 30.07.2010, 18:26
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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What hair colour are we sporting today, btw?
Don't know, you tell me, which color you see in your mirror?
  #300  
Old 30.07.2010, 18:26
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Not again...
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