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Old 03.08.2010, 09:30
economisto
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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The degree is irrelevant,
Beware those that say "the degree is irrelevant". You rail against religion and/or circumcision, but that's all religion is. You think you have an absolute truth? Good luck to you - I'll stick with nuance.

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if you did it to a stranger you'd be comitting assault.
Never mind sending that stranger to bed without supper - kidnapping, false imprisonment and torture if I'm not mistaken.

As a parent you have the responsibility to look after the childs well being, that doesn't mean you own your childs bodies.

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Imagine if circumcision was performed not at birth but at 8, on your boys birthday he is held down on a table while body parts are cut off without anaesthetic. I imagine his screams would be harder to ignore when he is old enough to use language.
Imagine if, instead of feeding your child mashed potatoes you feed him raw potatoes fired at him with a shot gun. Imagine if you made him eat fillet steak at 3 months, and made only breast milk available from the ages of 10 years to 13 years. Imagine....

.....what are you kidding me?
  #402  
Old 03.08.2010, 09:42
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Some research into it:

Taken from :
Public Health Rep. 2010 Jan-Feb;125 Suppl 1:72-82.
Male circumcision in the United States for the prevention of HIV infection and other adverse health outcomes: report from a CDC consultation.Smith DK, Taylor A, Kilmarx PH, Sullivan P, Warner L, Kamb M, Bock N, Kohmescher B, Mastro TD.


In April 2007, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) held a two-day consultation with a broad spectrum of stakeholders to obtain input on the potential role of male circumcision (MC) in preventing transmission of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) in the U.S. Working groups summarized data and discussed issues about the use of MC for prevention of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections among men who have sex with women, men who have sex with men (MSM), and newborn males. Consultants suggested that (1) sufficient evidence exists to propose that heterosexually active males be informed about the significant but partial efficacy of MC in reducing risk for HIV acquisition and be provided with affordable access to voluntary, high-quality surgical and risk-reduction counseling services; (2) information about the potential health benefits and risks of MC should be presented to parents considering infant circumcision, and financial barriers to accessing MC should be removed; and (3) insufficient data exist about the impact (if any) of MC on HIV acquisition by MSM, and additional research is warranted. If MC is recommended as a public health method, information will be required on its acceptability and uptake. Especially critical will be efforts to understand how to develop effective, culturally appropriate public health messages to mitigate increases in sexual risk behavior among men, both those already circumcised and those who may elect MC to reduce their risk of acquiring HIV.
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  #403  
Old 03.08.2010, 09:48
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Imagine if circumcision was performed not at birth but at 8, on your boys birthday he is held down on a table while body parts are cut off without anaesthetic.
Why it should be without???
  #404  
Old 03.08.2010, 09:59
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Re:Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Why it should be without???
Because there are those who do without when on a baby. The reason being if i'm not mistaken that anesthetic at that age is riskier than performing without.
  #405  
Old 03.08.2010, 10:02
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Because there are those who do without when on a baby. The reason being if i'm not mistaken that anesthetic at that age is riskier than performing without.
No, this is not true. They do used some anesthetic cream on the area.
  #406  
Old 03.08.2010, 10:02
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

That is a load of toss (@reids), maybe in tribes it is done without anesthetics but in a hospital it is done with anesthetics. No, not general anesthesia with sedation but local one...gee

@NIL: cream? don't think so but rather they can inject some in the area, I am not aware of the specifics though.
  #407  
Old 03.08.2010, 10:04
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Yes, Ang, but we all know that the US and CDC is the left hand and public face of the underground and ultra-orthodox Zionist-Islamo-Christian Pro Removal Involving Circumcision society (the so called ZIC-PRICs) which supports the mutilation of infants and adults alike. So this review is biased and clearly should not be taken at face value.


There you go, JlR, saved you the bother. (PM me if you want me to add bold or italic bits)

  #408  
Old 03.08.2010, 10:08
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Re:Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I'm not really following the sidetrack into piercing and the use of 'self realisation' it strikes me as a willfull attempt to ignore the points made.

The degree is irrelevant, a prick to draw blood, an ear piercing, slicing off parts of the genetalia, if you did it to a stranger you'd be comitting assault. As a parent you have the responsibility to look after the childs well being, that doesn't mean you own your childs bodies.

Imagine if circumcision was performed not at birth but at 8, on your boys birthday he is held down on a table while body parts are cut off without anaesthetic. I imagine his screams would be harder to ignore when he is old enough to use language. All because (in the absence of medical need) mummy and daddy want him to be in their club.
Which is why i agree with you. Parents should not be making changes in their kids body just because they feel like it. But once religion comes into the picture the reason changes. The parent is doing it because the think thats what god wants them to do. Whether YOU think god wants them to do it is irrelevant as long as there is no harm done.
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Old 03.08.2010, 10:09
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

So if mother decide to give birth by C-Section, bottle feed, pierce her baby girl ears and circumcised her boy, she should be stoned.

What an aweful mother, she can't possibly wants the best for her kids, so she should'nt be allowed to have them.

  #410  
Old 03.08.2010, 10:14
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Re:Circumcision: right or wrong?

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So if mother decide to give birth by C-Section, bottle feed, pierce her baby girl ears and circumcised her boy, she should be stoned.

What an aweful mother, she can't possibly wants the best for her kids, so she should'nt be allowed to have them.

Maybe she's just against nature. Ya' know let nature run its course and he might be a rapist.
  #411  
Old 03.08.2010, 10:17
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Why can't be all have our opinions and be nice to each other? I'm all for discussion but this has gone on 20 pages and nobody is going to change their minds.

Why can't we all just get along *bursts into tears*

Last edited by porsch1909; 03.08.2010 at 10:31. Reason: Alone to along :)
  #412  
Old 03.08.2010, 12:56
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I had a friend who had to be circumsised when he was 22, due to an infection. He says it is the worst thing to go through and wishes his parents had had it done to him when he was a baby.
  #413  
Old 03.08.2010, 12:59
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Some research into it:

Taken from :
Public Health Rep. 2010 Jan-Feb;125 Suppl 1:72-82.
Male circumcision in the United States for the prevention of HIV infection and other adverse health outcomes: report from a CDC consultation.Smith DK, Taylor A, Kilmarx PH, Sullivan P, Warner L, Kamb M, Bock N, Kohmescher B, Mastro TD.


In April 2007, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) held a two-day consultation with a broad spectrum of stakeholders to obtain input on the potential role of male circumcision (MC) in preventing transmission of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) in the U.S. Working groups summarized data and discussed issues about the use of MC for prevention of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections among men who have sex with women, men who have sex with men (MSM), and newborn males. Consultants suggested that (1) sufficient evidence exists to propose that heterosexually active males be informed about the significant but partial efficacy of MC in reducing risk for HIV acquisition and be provided with affordable access to voluntary, high-quality surgical and risk-reduction counseling services; (2) information about the potential health benefits and risks of MC should be presented to parents considering infant circumcision, and financial barriers to accessing MC should be removed; and (3) insufficient data exist about the impact (if any) of MC on HIV acquisition by MSM, and additional research is warranted. If MC is recommended as a public health method, information will be required on its acceptability and uptake. Especially critical will be efforts to understand how to develop effective, culturally appropriate public health messages to mitigate increases in sexual risk behavior among men, both those already circumcised and those who may elect MC to reduce their risk of acquiring HIV.
What relevance has this for industrialised countries where condom use is promoted and commonly used?

And what relevance has this for developing countries, where people should still be encouraged to use condoms?
  #414  
Old 03.08.2010, 14:12
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

So, anyone care to provide an executive summary of the concensus view?
.
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Old 03.08.2010, 14:16
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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So, anyone care to provide an executive summary of the concensus view?
.

If you are circumcised it's the best thing ever and everyone else should be.
If you aren't it's pointless and the parents are all monsters.

Personally I want the female opinion, scored on looks, function, usefulness.
  #416  
Old 03.08.2010, 14:42
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Tom 73 and custodian, I groaned at both of you not because of your opinions, what you are totally right to have but because of the no respect and the rudeness you showed about other people's believes.
What if those beliefs led you to burn a woman at the stake or stone a person to death? Is it still rude to question the logic and denounce such acts as crazy?

Give religion enough elbow room and we WILL be back to those days.
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Old 03.08.2010, 14:49
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Personally I want the female opinion, scored on looks, function, usefulness.
You got it all wrong. The criteria should be what is best for wanking.
  #418  
Old 03.08.2010, 15:24
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Re: BIG ONES ONLY

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Personally I want the female opinion, scored on looks, function, usefulness.
I'm back from SA and it's interesting to see this subject has come up again. Do I need to write in white so nobody will know what I think?
  #419  
Old 03.08.2010, 16:17
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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So, anyone care to provide an executive summary of the concensus view?
.
Wow, it's still going. Awesome.

I'd say, most of the US, Middle East and North Africa on side, most of Europe and the RoW on the other, plus anyone whose been circumcised after, I don't know, 3? 4?

Just so you know, I have a personal experience about this that I am not willing to share, yet, that has a bearing on the way I lean on the matter...
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Old 03.08.2010, 16:25
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I'm back from SA and it's interesting to see this subject has come up again. Do I need to write in white so nobody will know what I think?

Write it in red to symbolise the blood from all those brutal circumcisions.
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