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  #421  
Old 03.08.2010, 21:16
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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If you are circumcised it's the best thing ever and everyone else should be.
No! While I was circumcised out of medical reasons I don't think that anyone should be out of religious reasons ...

I agree with the "manly men" in here when they say, you shouldn't circumcise when there's another way. But once it has happened, it really isn't as bad as they think.
  #422  
Old 03.08.2010, 21:38
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Why it should be without???
That's how it was done for generations, it's tradition, you don't want to mess with tradition do you?
  #423  
Old 03.08.2010, 21:58
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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That is a load of toss (@reids), maybe in tribes it is done without anesthetics but in a hospital it is done with anesthetics. No, not general anesthesia with sedation but local one...gee

@NIL: cream? don't think so but rather they can inject some in the area, I am not aware of the specifics though.
A load of toss is it?

"Stang, 1998, found 45% of physicians responding to a survey who circumcise used anaesthesia – most commonly a dorsal penile nerve block – for infant circumcisions. The obstetricians in the sample used anaesthesia less often (25%) than the family practitioners (56%) or pediatricians (71%)"

Even of the programs teaching anesthesia in conjunction with the procedure, 16% do not frequently use anesthesia.

So much for the medical establishment, moving on to the delusional crowd

"Glass, 1999, stated that Jewish ritual circumcision is so quick that "most mohelim do not routinely use any anaesthesia as they feel there is probably no need in the neonate."

Keep your pejoratives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision
  #424  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:11
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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What relevance has this for industrialised countries where condom use is promoted and commonly used?

And what relevance has this for developing countries, where people should still be encouraged to use condoms?
I groaned you because this was done in the US (a developed country) and because I am not a public health analyzer and have no incumbence on the mass relevance of this. I read a lot of people saying a lot of stuff, I just wanted to put an "expert" opinion to it. If you are interested in what the relevance is then read the article. or contact CDC or better WHO
  #425  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:13
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Wow, I am humbled
  #426  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:17
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I groaned you because this was done in the US (a developed country) and because I am not a public health analyzer and have no incumbence on the mass relevance of this. I read a lot of people saying a lot of stuff, I just wanted to put an "expert" opinion to it. If you are interested in what the relevance is then read the article. or contact CDC or better WHO
You posted a huge piece about a medical opinion but you're not prepared to argue for its relevance?

The worse issue is not simply it's lack of relevance (which you have yet to counter). It's that it may persuade some that they don't need to use a condom when really they should. If one is using a condom, then any supposed preventative benefit bestowed by circumcision is, of course, made obsolete.

How about instead of simply groaning me and copping out by saying 'someone else thought it was important', why don't provide some solid arguments against what I said?
  #427  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:18
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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You posted a huge piece about a medical opinion but you're not prepared to argue for its relevance?
LOL why would I argue its relavance? It is something I put out there, whether people think is relevant or not is not my problem nor do I care about it. Any thinking person can draw his/her own confusions, if you can't read it, not my prob.
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Old 03.08.2010, 22:23
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Wow, I am humbled
References to the papers quoted are at the end of the wikipedia page.
  #429  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:24
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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LOL why would I argue its relavance? It is something I put out there, whether people think is relevant or not is not my problem nor do I care about it. Any thinking person can draw his/her own confusions, if you can't read it, not my prob.
I can't read it because as far as I can tell only the abstract is available on the link you sent rather than the whole paper.

Presumably if you post a link you stand behind it's conclusions. Or should we not draw that conclusion.

Rather than ask a question about your opinions or support for the paper, let me ask a more simple, more direct question:

Do you think people should view circumcision as a way of preventing the HIV infection, instead of using condoms?
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Old 03.08.2010, 22:30
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Do you think people should view circumcision as a way of preventing the HIV infection, instead of using condoms?
Ben non!!

No one with a proper usable brain will tell you this.
  #431  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:34
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Ben non!!

No one with a proper usable brain will tell you this.
In which case what is the point of claiming circumcision as way of reducing the risk of infection?
  #432  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:45
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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In which case what is the point of claiming circumcision as way of reducing the risk of infection?
I can't answer for others.

For me it do make sense to have less risk of infection without the foreskin. I don't believe it is THE answer to not have any infection. But every little help, no? Maybe I shouldn't talk because I don't have a penis, but for me I can't see what is the big deal about having it circoncised.

And because I don't have a penis, I tend to believe it is cleaner without the foreskin. But again, I am just a woman here!
  #433  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:49
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I But every little help, no?
Not really. It's a bit like saying when you're washing your car as well as using a hose you should also use a water pistol. It's ridiculous. And, of course, the risk is that some people will conclude they can get away with only using the water pistol.

HIV prevention is not something that should be messed with. I suspect the background to some of these studies is a Catholic 'no condom' agenda. Though, of course, the ideal Catholic answer to HIV, which is abstinence, would make circumcision redundant too.
  #434  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:50
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Do you think people should view circumcision as a way of preventing the HIV infection, instead of using condoms?
No I don't.
  #435  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:55
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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No I don't.
So what is the point of a paper showing a purported drop in the risk of HIV infection with circumcision?

And moreover, what is the effect of such ideas?
  #436  
Old 03.08.2010, 22:57
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I understand your point. What it bothers me is those hatefull comments about the parents doing it for what they believe is the best interest for their son. To ridiculised them, their beliefs, culture and tradition is never going to make it change. By this attitude, you push people to stick more in what they believe.
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Old 03.08.2010, 23:00
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I understand your point. What it bothers me is those hatefull comments about the parents doing it for what they believe is the best interest for their son. To ridiculised them, their beliefs, culture and tradition is never going to make it change. By this attitude, you push people to stick more in what they believe.
I don't mind people defending circumcision on the basis of cultural practise. Then you can have an argument about whether there's significant pain, loss of sensation, or about whether consent is needed or not. It may well be that cultural norms can be justified in overriding these concerns.

What I can't stand is a bogus argument about HIV transmission . . . that's a potentially very harmful message to spread.
  #438  
Old 03.08.2010, 23:01
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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So what is the point of a paper showing a purported drop in the risk of HIV infection with circumcision?

And moreover, what is the effect of such ideas?
I think one should see it as a way to reduce risk if people in some countries do not accept (for different reasons) to use condoms. Condom usage should be encouraged by education and circumcision as well to reduce the risk. So it's not an alternative but rather a complementary tool.
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Old 03.08.2010, 23:04
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I think one should see it as a way to reduce risk if people in some countries do not accept (for different reasons) to use condoms. Condom usage should be encouraged by education and circumcision as well to reduce the risk. So it's not an alternative but rather a complementary tool.
The risk is that some will see it as supplementary rather than complementary and support for maintaining their dangerous lack of acceptance of proper protection.
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Old 03.08.2010, 23:04
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I don't mind people defending circumcision on the basis of cultural practise. Then you can have an argument about whether there's significant pain, loss of sensation, or about whether consent is needed or not. It may well be that cultural norms can be justified in overriding these concerns.

What I can't stand is a bogus argument about HIV transmission . . . that's a potentially very harmful message to spread.
Ok I got your point. I am no scientist so can't go on the path.
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