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  #541  
Old 25.08.2010, 01:00
hoppy
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Baby cicumcision

Child cicucision
Adult circumcision



  #542  
Old 25.08.2010, 01:06
economisto
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Well certain self-thinking people
Who? Where?

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find barbaric behaviours justififed by silly religious notions illogical.
The only real evidence in the argument thus far is that circumcision significantly retards the spread of HIV. Everything else from sensitivity to pain hasn't been shown to be true in any way. Don't know what the whole religion thing is about...

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Just because your perverse logic is taking a hit,
Haven't seen that either I'm afraid.

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Your moniker is well suited.
You and I both know that only physicists have real logic...only physicists see the world the way it really is.
  #543  
Old 25.08.2010, 01:26
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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The only real evidence in the argument thus far is that circumcision significantly retards the spread of HIV. Everything else from sensitivity to pain hasn't been shown to be true in any way. Don't know what the whole religion thing is about...
Regarding sensitivity, it is a reasonable and objective anatomical study to look at the nerve cell density of an adult foreskin. It is my understanding that it is much higher than normal skin - near that of, say, ones lips. But maybe those nerves don't do anything or something. Or maybe the pictures in the medical textbooks, are like, photo-shopped or something. And maybe the pornstar who was circumcised at 31 was just, y'know, joking or mistaken when he said that with a foreskin, "you can feel much more fun."

Regarding HIV - if you think that your kid might get HIV before you can ask them what they want their dick to look like, something is very very wrong.

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You and I both know that only physicists have real logic...only physicists see the world the way it really is.
Only mathematicians have real logic. But they know that the results of logic depend on what you are willing to believe at the beginning. Without assuming Occam's razor you don't even get physics.
  #544  
Old 25.08.2010, 01:28
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Circumsicion should be banned unless for medical reasons. No ifs and buts for religious reasons either. If your god wanted the kid to be without foreskin then he would have created the kid without one. The ignorance and dumbness of humans constantly amazes me.
I second that...it's still genital mutilation and a very primitive 'tradition' !
  #545  
Old 25.08.2010, 02:02
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Who? Where?
The only real evidence in the argument thus far is that circumcision significantly retards the spread of HIV. Everything else from sensitivity to pain hasn't been shown to be true in any way. Don't know what the whole religion thing is about...
< You and I both know that only physicists have real logic...only physicists see the world the way it really is.
The AMA are now against it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

It is education not Circumcision that stems the flow of HIV infection. Was the African study class blind? In the past circumcision was carried out more by the upper classes-those who could afford the process or were more educated in practice of safe sex. Nowadays we have better standards of hygiene, men wash more frequently. the circumcise trend is reversing as many decide to buck the years of tradition and culture in favour of educating their children as opposed to the risks and pain involved in unnecessarily hacking of a flesh nerve bundle. I don't know of any study that shows HIV infection rates to be more prevalent among British men (the majority of whom are uncircumcised) than US men. The African study may be skewed- those taking the circumcision are likely to be those more who care more about infection in the first place. Hopefully they get an education in safe sex at the time of circumcision, otherwise if ignorant, they may feel that this is some kind of free pass amulet which will ward of the HIV bad spirit.
  #546  
Old 25.08.2010, 02:28
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I think you as parents should decide.
Its no-one elses business .(not even the babies).
You decided to create the child, its your child, you will bring it up as you wish, and you will decide whether or not he be circumcised.
either decision is fine, neither is illegal nor harmful, the decision should satisfy your motives.
basta.

You start listening to this lot, they'll tell you that should consult with the baby before deciding whether or not to give birth to it.
They'll have you reading a thesis on the ethics or lack thereof of stepping on live grass.

but thats not going to stop them groaning the heck out of this post.
  #547  
Old 25.08.2010, 03:03
hoppy
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Who? Where?
The only real evidence in the argument thus far is that circumcision significantly retards the spread of HIV. Everything else from sensitivity to pain hasn't been shown to be true in any way. Don't know what the whole religion thing is about...
< You and I both know that only physicists have real logic...only physicists see the world the way it really is.
The AMA are now against it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

It is education not Circumcision that stems the flow of HIV infection. Was the African study class blind? In the past circumcision was carried out more by the upper classes-those who could afford the process or were more educated in practice of safe sex. Nowadays that trend is reversing as many decide to buck the years of tradition and culture in favour of educating their children as opposed to the risks and pain involved in unnecessarily hacking of a flesh nerve bundle. I don't know of any study that shows HIV infection rates to be more prevalent above British men (the majority of whom are uncircumcised) than US men. The African study may be skewed- those taking the circumcision are likely to be those more who care more about infection in the first place. Hopefully they get an eduacation in safe sex at the time of circumcision, otherwise if ignorant, they may feel that this is some kind of free pass amulet which will ward of the HIV bad spirit.
  #548  
Old 25.08.2010, 04:29
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Die thread, die !!!
  #549  
Old 25.08.2010, 04:53
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Die thread, die !!!
No don't it's a great thread- I'll back off
  #550  
Old 25.08.2010, 08:40
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Everyone, especially the pro-circumcision people, watch this video, and use the decision maker on this website. But really WATCH this video in full length, with volume cranked up. Not barbaric? Not like removing the entire fingernail? Protects from HIV? Please get FULLY informed!
http://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com...mcision-video/
http://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com/decide/
  #551  
Old 25.08.2010, 08:40
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I think you as parents should decide.
Its no-one elses business .(not even the babies).
You decided to create the child, its your child, you will bring it up as you wish, and you will decide whether or not he be circumcised.

.
And as was discussed earlier, what if I as a parent decided that I want to cut off ..let's say my baby's earlobes? You don't really need them, after all. Ok, they are not harmful either, but my baby, my choice?
  #552  
Old 25.08.2010, 09:13
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Only mathematicians have real logic. But they know that the results of logic depend on what you are willing to believe at the beginning. Without assuming Occam's razor you don't even get physics.
Well said. This is exactly what I was hiding between the words: economists use bad assumptions from the start in their field; hence traditional economics theory is bogus. Ditto for this discussion.
  #553  
Old 25.08.2010, 09:46
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Well, in all fairness, they can both involve cutting off what is or would be in an adult a nerve rich section of genitalia for reasons of culture and tradition. Now I'll be the first to agree that many sorts of FGM are significantly worse than circumcision. But this is a bit like saying that stealing $10 is ok because it isn't stealing $1000.

From an anatomic point of view, the labia and the foreskin serve similar protective roles, and they are also both far more sensitive than plain skin. Are you sure that you are evaluating circumcision and FGM with the same eyes?
I can see you have no idea of the consequences of the FGM.

They cut the labia very short and sew it together with a very small hole to let the urine passed. The first sexual intercourse is very painful as the guy has to force himself in. Which mean he has to rip off the ''vaginal door''. This bring a LOT of bleeding and pain. It is highly dangerous for infections and in every single sexual intercourse, the exact freaking thing will happened again and again. They also cut off the clitoris to assure the woman will NEVER enjoy sex, so she will not want to go around and sleep with other men outside the mariage.

So before to compared oranges and soccer balls, make some proper research. I can't believe sometimes what people say without knowing!

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Please explain.


Please keep it civilized.
Also, that's an incorrect interpretation of my sigh.
It was the "why do I get involved in a discussion about a very loaded topic that I don't even care much about (unless someone tries to do it to my future children) with people that I don't know that can't just accept my opinion but constantly try to attack me on a Tuesday night when I really have better thing to do"-sigh.
You should be happy no one force you to read write or participate to this topic.
  #554  
Old 25.08.2010, 10:19
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I can see you have no idea of the consequences of the FGM.
The world health organization classifies a number of different procedures as FGM. What I think you are describing would be classified as type III, and "accounts for about 10% of all FGM procedures described from Africa." This doesn't discuss the statistics on other continents, but one might be led to suspect that most FGM is not what you described.

I did say that many types of FGM are worse than circumcision, and this is certainly one of those. However I fail to see how any of this changes the basic wrongness of cutting healthy bits off of babies. For the record I don't particularly like the idea of babies with pierced ears, nor would I want to see a baby with tats. But both of these things are comparatively easy to reverse if the kid grows up and changes his or her mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_...categorization
  #555  
Old 25.08.2010, 10:25
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

What ever the size of the procedure, look at the consequences. Nothing to be compared with circumcision.
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Old 25.08.2010, 11:26
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Well said. This is exactly what I was hiding between the words: economists use bad assumptions from the start in their field; hence traditional economics theory is bogus. Ditto for this discussion.
Is this your pocket line you bring out at Wedding receptions and Christenings to try and mingle. It'll be the third time I've heard you say it, and it doesn't get funnier with age.

Oh, and it seems yours is an opinion shared by Sophisticat....bodes well
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Old 25.08.2010, 12:18
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Also, that's an incorrect interpretation of my sigh.
It was the "why do I get involved in a discussion about a very loaded topic that I don't even care much about (unless someone tries to do it to my future children) with people that I don't know that can't just accept my opinion but constantly try to attack me on a Tuesday night when I really have better thing to do"-sigh.
Based on this comment...

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I can see that it's hard to admit that something is wrong when you didn't make the decision yourself and can't do a thing to reverse it now.
...this would be an appropriate response...


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I never said you were circumcised.
Maybe not directly, granted, but you wrote:

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But I can see that many here will defend their circumcised penises to death.
Maybe I'd do the same if I was circumcised.
The implication being that only circumcised men would defend the practice.

I was just pointing out the fallacy of your argument.

HTH
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Old 25.08.2010, 22:43
hoppy
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I was just pointing out the fallacy of your argument.

HTH
He said phallacy (snorty snigger)

It's cavaliers versus round-heads.
  #559  
Old 26.08.2010, 23:53
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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And as was discussed earlier, what if I as a parent decided that I want to cut off ..let's say my baby's earlobes? You don't really need them, after all. Ok, they are not harmful either, but my baby, my choice?
Look you chose to have the child . You do with it as you please. You do the best for it. But do it according to your own standards and whats legal and in accordance with cultural norms you respect.

You cant please everyone. And you'll never find an end to criticism
Because of a great diversity of accepted social norms.

Adapt your decisions , if you cant make up your own mind, to the prevailing norm of the week. If thats your wish. But its your child, its your decision to do whats best for it , and up to you to decide whats right and wrong.

Hey if you live in a culture where chopping off earlobes is the norm, then chances are you've got chopped earlobes and chances are you think its a good idea to do that to your child.

Circumcision is not chopping off earlobes. It is not according to cultural norms an outlandish or barbaric act.

Nor is killing an innocent animal ripping its leg off and gnawing into its flesh. Barbaric as it may sound.
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Old 27.08.2010, 00:18
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Everyone, especially the pro-circumcision people, watch this video, and use the decision maker on this website. But really WATCH this video in full length, with volume cranked up. Not barbaric? Not like removing the entire fingernail? Protects from HIV? Please get FULLY informed!
http://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com...mcision-video/
http://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com/decide/
Damn that's uncomfortable watching, you've got to be some sort of sick f**k to do that to a kid because your imaginary friends tells you to.
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