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Old 07.09.2011, 20:00
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

You would think - except in a weird anti-intellectual/anti-science religious way - the rationalization goes like this: "god" intended us born this way, circumcision promotes promiscuity (immorality) and leads to the spread of STDS. If only your child behaved, it would not need to be circumcised. That's the short version.

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Actually wouldn't people against circumcision would be against people who have a religious agenda? Am I getting confused or dumber by the moment...time to stop working I guess
  #782  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:06
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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You know, I keep having to rehash things you miss - like you missing the basis of my decision or the evidence of hygiene benefit. I are either doing it on purpose to confuse the issue or you have some kind of problem. To answer your question - YES.I.HAVE - go back and read. Please show where I have quoted a friend with a PhD. Its true I mentioned a friend's decision to circumcise her boy and that she is a PhD in public health, employed by an organization that studies STD's internationally. I didn't quote her and I don't need her "help" dealing with you. I might turn the question back to you - do you have a credible source to back up your opinion, besides your husband's sensitive boxers. So far, correct me if I am wrong, you only want others to provide credible sources. Seriously.
My son's paediatrician advised against circumcision unless, and I quote, "you want it for religious or cultural reasons but otherwise it's not necessary". Given that he's been spot on about everything else to do with my son's health, I tend to go with his opinion rather that some nutter on an internet forum.
  #783  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:07
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Finally a reasonable statement. There are may people that believe immunizations are harmful to the child - a position that leads to more disease and death. I only mentioned it since someone posted what I view as a purist attitude parents can't make the decision for their offspring. The only thing I would only add that doing it a child birth is less invasive and it heals faster. I for one, am glad it was done for me so I didn't have to deal with the pain later in life. Who knows, I might have avoided doing it and died by now.

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Ok A2Z, you believe that circumcision will help your child with possible HIV risk. Fine.

But you can't compare vaccinating your child against a disease, such as small pox which is airborn, to circumcision as "vaccine" against AIDS and other STDs. Whether hte relation between HIV transmission/circumcision it is true or not, a shot, even with possible side effects, can't be compared to cutting part of a human body. Specially if there is a variant (like the use of a condom) which, though not 100% guarantee, has probably a higher chance of stopping the transmition of STDs.

You want to defend circumcision, fine. No problem there. But informed consent debate over vaccines (for diseases that might attack you as soon as you pop out) and over STDS (which might attack you after you hit puberty) is a bit over the top...



I'm against circumcision because of my own reasons, but I don't see it so much as a religious agenda. At least as I understood from diverse movies/ documentaries/ posts here, the reason to do it in America nowadays, for example, has nothing to do with religion, right?
  #784  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:11
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Bully for him. I read that a very large percentage of pediatricians are uninformed about the latest research on this topic. I am glad you found a pediatrician that supported your view point.

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My son's paediatrician advised against circumcision. Given that he's been spot on about everything else to do with my son's health, I tend to go with his opinion rather that some nutter on an internet forum.
  #785  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:12
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Finally a reasonable statement. There are may people that believe immunizations are harmful to the child - a position that leads to more disease and death. I only mentioned it since someone posted what I view as a purist attitude parents can't make the decision for their offspring. The only thing I would only add that doing it a child birth is less invasive and it heals faster. I for one, am glad it was done for me so I didn't have to deal with the pain later in life. Who knows, I might have avoided doing it and died by now.
Given that more than half your post count on this forum is on this subject I would say the experience has left you with a few issues, no?

Just sayin'
  #786  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:23
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Bully for him. I read that a very large percentage of pediatricians are uninformed about the latest research on this topic. I am glad you found a pediatrician that supported your view point.
You have to take something in consideration: though the latest research points towards HIV direction prevention, it is still not definitive. Like any other scientific studies, it takes a lot of studies, a lot of contradicting ideas, until a more or less final version comes out.

(if only... then Pluto would still be a planet... You'll always be a planet to me! <3)

And this study shows that it might help preventing STD infection during unprotected sex. In this point I am really more in favour of good sexual education than prevention by cutting foreskin... There are other STDs which cannot be prevented at all by circumcision but might with the use of a condom... This is why I agree that the kid should have a saying, even if might be more painful to do the procedure later on in life. At least the guy can say "my parents respected my possibility of choice".
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  #787  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:26
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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You have to take something in consideration: though the latest research points towards HIV direction prevention, it is still not definitive. Like any other scientific studies, it takes a lot of studies, a lot of contradicting ideas, until a more or less final version comes out.

(if only... then Pluto would still be a planet... You'll always be a planet to me! <3)

And this study shows that it might help preventing STD infection during unprotected sex. In this point I am really more in favour of good sexual education than prevention by cutting foreskin... There are other STDs which cannot be prevented at all by circumcision but might with the use of a condom... This is why I agree that the kid should have a saying, even if might be more painful to do the procedure later on in life. At least the guy can say "my parents respected my possibility of choice".
Careful, you can get branded a religious extremist for that kind of logic...
  #788  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:28
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Primum non nocere.
  #789  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:28
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I think the argument of circumcision reducing the risk of STDs and AIDS in normal circumstances where other forms of protection are readily available and are MUCH more effective is ridiculous. So what, if you circumcise your son he doesn't need to use other forms of protection because his risk of catching something is a couple of % lower? I'd much rather educate my son about using more effective protection than cut his foreskin off.
  #790  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:43
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Careful, you can get branded a religious extremist for that kind of logic...
Actually, since I am also pro-choice in even more dramatic-censured-enfuriating topics, I would be a good candidate for the burning stakes by any religious extremist

I'm so happy I a) do not have red hair b) not longer own a black cat c) was not born 900 years ago... *evil cackle*
  #791  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:53
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I never suggested circumcision was a substitute for good parenting. However, not circumcising because it promotes promiscuity earns you the title.

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Careful, you can get branded a religious extremist for that kind of logic...
  #792  
Old 07.09.2011, 20:58
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Coming from the US, I get particularly riled up when people start pushing a religious agenda and disregarding medical science...
Of course because as we all know religion has no agenda in the US, has no influence on abortion or genetic research and the US is the most reasonable country on the planet when it comes to religion....piffle.

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So basically, male circumcision can be used to prevent spread of HIV and other STDs.
No, slow is what the study said, not stop. And medical studies are not always neutral or correct and often have vested interests. HIV and AIDS studies especially.

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credible sources
In English we call this bullshit. Prove your source is credible.

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Ouchy as much as I luuuuv ya, I think you are overreacting.
Put your dick on the table and say that again. The spread of some quite nasty cancers could be stopped by removing women's cirvixes early I am sure but hell, I would be the last person to suggest that. I guess it is easier when it is not your penis being mutilated.

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Right. And vaccines?
Oh yes, because vaccines are the same as mutilation....sure, good freaking call there.

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As a new born, the procedure is very quick, no stiches needed and almost no bleeding at all. More often babies will cry more for a vaccine than the procedure itself.
And that makes it all okay? FFS.

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I honestly do not see why people get so upset about this, then again I do not have a willy so cant really relate but that is hardly (no pun intended) the point.
Once again I think you hit it on the head....oh no, that the poor babies head.....oooops.

I am shocked and saddened that a bunch of people that I until now had really enjoyed having conversations and debates with would think that mutilating children would be okay for whatever reason. I am ashamed to belong to the same species. Seriously, sorry but this has upset me a lot.
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  #793  
Old 07.09.2011, 21:04
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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At least the guy can say "my parents respected my possibility of choice".
As far as I am concerned, I was born this way. I have no recollection of it being done and I know it heals very quickly with infants. Its not much of a choice later in life - kids often don't wear condoms in their first sexual experience (despite our best efforts to teach them). To expect them to ask for a circumcision, a more invasive procedure that takes longer to heal if done later... is a Hobson's (and unrealistic) choice. As parent its my duty to make an informed health decision on circumcision, as well as other things (vaccines, breastfeeding, etc). And again, I am reminded of the anti-biotic bugs out there these days ... and its only getting worse. http://www.cdc.gov/getsmart/antibiot...ast-facts.html
  #794  
Old 07.09.2011, 21:09
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Of course because as we all know religion has no agenda in the US, has no influence on abortion or genetic research and the US is the most reasonable country on the planet when it comes to religion....piffle.
Huh? I was saying Religion (particularly a politically active fundamentalism) a serious problem in the US. Its a rare Republican that believes in evolution.
  #795  
Old 07.09.2011, 21:16
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Huh? I was saying Religion (particularly a politically active fundamentalism) a serious problem in the US. Its a rare Republican that believes in evolution.
Well then your source is not credible if it has religious bias. Simple. End of credible source. I was not saying that you said it, I just pointed out that a lot of studies in or funded by US based parties are bollox because of the religious fanatasism there.
  #796  
Old 07.09.2011, 21:29
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

This thread has been locked and opened on a number of occasions. Nobody will ever agree on this subject, which is proven by the fact that this thread is now 40 pages long.

Sorry guys, but the EF is not the place to debate this subject in length.

In future if anybody asks for advice about circumcision in Switzerland for whatever reasons then please offer only advice, and not your personal opinons on whether it is right or wrong.
  #797  
Old 07.10.2015, 22:14
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please]

Our son had it done at Tockterhaus back a few years ago. The experience was good at least on the day of the surgery. We followed all the instructions for disinfection & changing of bandage. Unfortunately, our son caught an infection (yes, you know where...) in the week after the surgery and had to go into the hospital. He eventually recovered fine. Maybe it was just the 1 in a 1000, but if given a second chance I'd reconsider.
  #798  
Old 07.10.2015, 23:13
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please]

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Hello - my wife and I are expecting a boy in a few weeks and are expecting a boy. We would like to have him circumcised in a hospital settings (not a mohel per se) by an experienced doctor. Any recommendation for a Doctor or a hospital that you recommend near Zurich area?
I wonder how your boy will feel about not having a say in having the end of his dick cut off in say 15 years time.

Especially when there is no medical or hygienic reason for this rather outdated and useless procedure.

For what reason do you want this done ?
  #799  
Old 08.10.2015, 20:41
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please]

the funny thing on EF is that when someone would ask where he can get the tail of his little puppy cut off, he would be lynched...
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Old 08.10.2015, 20:44
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please]

... or people more concerned about the Burka or any form of head covering!

Surgery on a young child's genitals for no medical reasons seems like a form of abuse to me- nothing will ever make me change my mind on this. Why is FMG (and there are degrees of this) absolutely 'abhorent' but circumcision totally acceptable - can't fathom?!?

Last edited by Odile; 08.10.2015 at 21:02.
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