Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 03.04.2009, 21:23
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 9,688
Groaned at 73 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 14,749 Times in 5,754 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
It is not only men that regret being circumsized...

mothering debate
Excellent post. Excruciating reading, though.
  #122  
Old 03.04.2009, 21:34
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 9,688
Groaned at 73 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 14,749 Times in 5,754 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Actually to pursue the "mothering" side of it - since having my son this aspect has always puzzled me. My son was jaundiced when he was born and had to undergo a daily Guthrie test where they prick the bottom of the heel for a bit of blood.

Since the birth I had turned into an angry bear of a mother and had to send my husband along with my son for the tests because I was in danger of knocking seven shades of poo out of the lovely lamb of a nurse doing the test. I have to add that I know the test was perfectly necessary and the nurse did the job fabulously but it was the act of "hurting" my son which flicked a switch inside me.

I couldn't imagine even contemplating allowing anyone to lop a bit off him unless it was injured, diseased or a life or death situation (well, not without coming back for the doctor responsible armed with an AK47, anyway ).
__________________
“A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom.” – Bob Dylan
  #123  
Old 03.04.2009, 21:48
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowshitsbourg
Posts: 1,373
Groaned at 322 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 607 Times in 291 Posts
Canadian_dude has a reputation beyond reputeCanadian_dude has a reputation beyond reputeCanadian_dude has a reputation beyond reputeCanadian_dude has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
The two procedures are typically very different in terms of scope, intent and outcome. It's not at all surprising (and quite justifiable) that they are perceived differently.
Not true. Some FGM only removes the skin over the clitoris.
  #124  
Old 03.04.2009, 22:15
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,072
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,188 Times in 5,759 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: Right or Wrong II

Quote:
View Post
Photo is from a totally unbiased source, is it? No. Is there a pro-circumcision website that has other photos? Maybe this was placed deliberately because it was the worst that could be found. Perhaps 10 seconds later, baby was happily in mums arms have a good feed.

Please note - I'm not in favour of circumcision. But I've a fascination with the objective portrayal of facts.
And circumcising a baby because of religious beliefs is hardly objective either is it?

It's, to put it bluntly, all in the mind which seems pretty subjective to me but you don't mention this in your post regarding your fascination with objectivity....
  #125  
Old 03.04.2009, 22:28
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
Finally, I figured that should my child be unhappy with our decision, it would come at a time when he could go get a new foreskin at the doctors, I mean, they can make brand new parts for transgendered persons, why not new foreskin?
Is this irony or does it reflect the nature of your "medical" findings before making the decision?


Edit: And to add something constructive: I've read some pages of the thread from the Mothering forum and found it interesting. There are more controversial topics over there too, like vaccinations.

Last edited by Nathu; 03.04.2009 at 23:34.
  #126  
Old 04.04.2009, 00:04
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,072
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,188 Times in 5,759 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
You got me. I genuinely hate groaning but I hate seeing well-meaning parents being bullied even more. The premise is that the anti-circ crowd cares more about a child than her own parents and I think that premise is faulty. For people who have already decided to do it, it's a genuine concern to find out how to go about it in a foreign country and it's irritating to see them subjected to the same boo hisses you find on every single darn parenting board
I obviously can't speak for anyone else but personally I am not in a crowd as you so suggest.

You're going to get criticised with a post like that of the OP on any public forum.

I suggest the OP asks at the hospital where the child will be born, or for a home birth, the midwife or doctor.
Why didn't anyone else ask that?

This is the way I look at it:

If I had put a new post on EF stating, for example:

"I wish to purchase a cane in the Geneva area for the purpose of beating my child as a punishment when he won't behave.
I don't want to start a debate, nor do I expect any comments from people not agreeing with my views on child punishment, I just want to know where to purchase a cane."

Do you really think the only replies I would get would be those from people giving me the addresses of cane purveyors?


What's the difference?

I bet the big difference is that one could possibly involve the "R" word.
  #127  
Old 04.04.2009, 10:59
Macchiato's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 730
Groaned at 22 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 330 Times in 218 Posts
Macchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeable
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
OP. Would you circumcize you daughter? No? Why would you do that to your son? What would you say if your parents had YOU circumcised when you were a baby?

T.
These 2 things are totally different issues! In girls is killing sexual joy, while in boys not at all! Do you wanna see the proof?!
  #128  
Old 04.04.2009, 11:03
Macchiato's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 730
Groaned at 22 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 330 Times in 218 Posts
Macchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeable
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
In Africa. On should not underestimate the environmental issues involved, particularly with regards to things like relative rates of condom usage.

It's quite arguable whether the same dramatic difference would be seen in, say, Western Europe.
Un recomm. is not just based on africa: http://data.unaids.org/pub/Report/20...dations_en.pdf

Of course it doesn't replace condom usage!
  #129  
Old 04.04.2009, 12:41
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
These 2 things are totally different issues! In girls is killing sexual joy, while in boys not at all! Do you wanna see the proof?!
Do you have any before/after experience to back this up?

Link taken from the Mothering forum:

http://www.healthmad.com/Men's-Healt...n-Women.541911
  #130  
Old 04.04.2009, 13:21
saharanz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 409
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 258 Times in 138 Posts
saharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputation
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
These 2 things are totally different issues! In girls is killing sexual joy, while in boys not at all! Do you wanna see the proof?!
So why are there so many websites around with men taking months/years trying to grow their foreskins back (incl.DIY methods, so the're not all trying to sell fancy products) and saying they can't believe how much better it is?

eg: here

(only looked for a minute out of curosity and found heaps)

Last edited by saharanz; 04.04.2009 at 13:32. Reason: link
  #131  
Old 04.04.2009, 13:42
saharanz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 409
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 258 Times in 138 Posts
saharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputation
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
Finally, I figured that should my child be unhappy with our decision, it would come at a time when he could go get a new foreskin at the doctors, I mean, they can make brand new parts for transgendered persons, why not new foreskin?

Can't find the original comment anymore but here is some info about surgical restoration.

Last edited by saharanz; 04.04.2009 at 16:53.
  #132  
Old 04.04.2009, 13:48
Nev
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
if you have decided what you want to do with your son, that's your choice
I know there are different reasons put forward by the pro camp but this, surely, can't be a valid one.
  #133  
Old 04.04.2009, 15:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 13 Times in 2 Posts
ml66uk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

"if you have decided what you want to do with your son, that's your choice"

Yeah, they use that argument in the countries where they cut girls. In fact they use almost all the exact same reasons to justify it that some people use to justify cutting boys. There are intelligent, educated, articulate women who will passionately defend it, and as well as using the same reasons that are used to defend male circumcision in the US, they will also point to male circumcision itself, as well as labiaplasty and breast operations, as evidence of western hypocrisy regarding female circumcision.

Are you aware that the USA also used to practise female circumcision? Fortunately, it never caught on the same way as male circumcision, but there are middle-aged white US American women walking round today with no external clitoris because it was removed. Some of them don't even realise what has been done to them. There are frequent references to the practice in medical literature up until the late 1950's. Most of them point out the similarity with male circumcision, and suggest that it should be performed for the same reasons. Blue Cross/Blue Shield had a code for clitoridectomy till 1977.

One victim wrote a book about it:
Robinett, Patricia (2006). "The rape of innocence: One woman's story of female genital mutilation in the USA."

Nowadays, it's illegal even to make an incision on a girl's genitals though, even if no tissue is removed. Why don't boys get the same protection?

If people are serious about stopping female circumcision, they also have to be against male circumcision. Even if you see a fundamental difference, the people that cut girls don't (and they get furious if you call it "mutilation"). The sooner boys are protected from genital mutilation in the west, the sooner those peoples that practice fgm will interpret western objections as something more than blindly hypocritical cultural imperialism.
  #134  
Old 04.04.2009, 19:10
Macchiato's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 730
Groaned at 22 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 330 Times in 218 Posts
Macchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeable
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
So why are there so many websites around with men taking months/years trying to grow their foreskins back (incl.DIY methods, so the're not all trying to sell fancy products) and saying they can't believe how much better it is?

eg: here

(only looked for a minute out of curosity and found heaps)
You can find website on everything these days! from enlarging nose to nails, to arse,....
  #135  
Old 04.04.2009, 19:12
Macchiato's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 730
Groaned at 22 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 330 Times in 218 Posts
Macchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeable
Re: Circumcision: Right or Wrong II

Quote:
View Post

I'm against mutilating anyone. Let them decide themselves; kids aren't possessions. But that's just an opinion.
It's much easier to do in early age not in adulthood! like naming the kid!
  #136  
Old 04.04.2009, 19:40
saharanz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 409
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 258 Times in 138 Posts
saharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputationsaharanz has an excellent reputation
Re: Circumcision for newborn son

Quote:
View Post
You can find website on everything these days! from enlarging nose to nails, to arse,....
How many of those are for people trying to enlarge their nose/nails/arse/any body part because their parents thought it was a good idea to chop it off when they were a baby?
  #137  
Old 04.04.2009, 19:58
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 13 Times in 2 Posts
ml66uk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Circumcision: Right or Wrong II

Quote:
View Post
It's much easier to do in early age not in adulthood! like naming the kid!
Actually, it's safer and less painful to do it later, and the results are cosmetically better. Most countries that circumcise boys do it between the ages of about 7-20, and find the notion of doing it to a newborn strange.

Only about 1% of UK males left intact ever get circumcised anyway, so it's not like it needs to be done at all, certainly not before the person whose body it is gets to decide.

If my son wants to be circumcised when he's 18 (16 if he knows what he's doing), I'll gladly pay for it and help him find a good surgeon. Until then though, I don't think I have the right to have part of his penis cut off. His body - his decision.
  #138  
Old 05.04.2009, 15:57
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,390
Groaned at 160 Times in 109 Posts
Thanked 7,735 Times in 3,203 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: Right or Wrong II

Quote:
View Post
It's much easier to do in early age not in adulthood! like naming the kid!
Right! It's so much easier to force a permanent physical imposition when they can't say 'No'

It is wrong without consent.
  #139  
Old 06.04.2009, 14:39
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowshitsbourg
Posts: 1,373
Groaned at 322 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 607 Times in 291 Posts
Canadian_dude has a reputation beyond reputeCanadian_dude has a reputation beyond reputeCanadian_dude has a reputation beyond reputeCanadian_dude has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Nobody would suggest removing a person's eyelids? Well, foreskin is a d**ks eyelid. If nature put it there who the hell do you think you are deciding you know better? (or your rabbi or some other 50 year old virgin in a funny hat).
  #140  
Old 06.04.2009, 14:41
argus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Zug canton (calmly in Cham)
Posts: 3,378
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,236 Posts
argus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond reputeargus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Nobody would suggest removing a person's eyelids? Well, foreskin is a d**ks eyelid. If nature put it there who the hell do you think you are deciding you know better? (or your rabbi or some other 50 year old virgin in a funny hat).

Well put, CDude.
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please] wheels Family matters/health 48 23.03.2016 18:04
The Wrong Word(s) [non-native speaker slip-ups] Lob Language corner 218 29.03.2011 14:36
We were all wrong, cars and polution aren't the problem. TEXANSinNJ General off-topic 13 05.01.2008 17:16
Is it wrong to snigger at what your child is doing? Zug bound General off-topic 10 09.11.2007 23:11
What Time is It - Forum Timestamp wrong ! DaveA Forum support 1 21.09.2007 17:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0