That is a load of bullshit.

Sorry, but I think all of the above is bullshit also.

This is crap also.

It is not the ALCOHOL, it is the idiot that never knows his/hers limit, that is the problem. Many, many people abide by the law and stick to just one drink when they drive - but of course we never hear about "normal" people in these discussions. It is almost bland statements that 40% .... blah blah. Do you really believe statistics????? They are manipulated all the time.

Oh. All right then. Thank you. Perhaps I should then donate all my charity money to the "Drug addicts who want access to better stuff to get high with fund" and preach on trains to kids that cocaine and pot and alcohol is better than getting high on cheap stuff instead of giving them the information to make decisions that do not involve drugs at all.

And no, it is NOT TRUE that all kids experiment with "stuff".

It's not all bullshit at all.

The argument for legalising all drugs to reduce petty crime is an old one that I agree with to a point.

Additionally, I think the statement that Heroin can be relatively harmless has some truth in it too. Personally I find the idea of the drug pretty sickening, and dread to think of the reasons and the situation by which people are introduced to it, but it's really the peripheral stuff that causes problems.

wow, your arguments are irrefutable. thanks for contributing to the discussion here.

Interesting topic to debate, but not on this thread. It's going off at a tangent. I'll move these posts to their own new thread.

You really don't get it at all. You cannot tell somebody that smoking pot will kill them when they know several people that smoke pot regularly who are not dead. The same applies with many harder drugs. This is the fundamental problem with a lot of "drug education".

You can provide people with accurate, balanced information about the risks and pitfalls of drugs but ultimately it is there decision whether they take said drugs.

Whether you like it or not providing balanced information includes telling people that smoking pot is safe, apart from risk of lung cancer due to tobacco, risk of nicotine addition from the same, risk of anxiety attacks etc etc. You can tell kids that they can probably take Ecstasy every weekend (I know this will provoke a response which is why I use it as an example) with next to no side effects short term, long term it is thought that the drug might lead to depression but this is unproven, sleep deprivation etc etc. Campaigns like "One Ecstasy tablet can kill you" are inaccurate and this is why they are ineffective.

I didn't say it was

That is OK, I always did think people who take so-called recreational drugs are idiots.

When you see what has happened in Britain with Skunk, it makes me want to laugh. This is what happens when you decriminalize this rubbish. There are now Skunk factories dotted all over the place thanks to the stupid Liberal and Socialist idiots running the country.

What's the problem with skunk factories dotted all over the place?

Many obvious things.

no doubt it is foolish for me to try to debate with you but here goes: do you include in your definition of recreational drugs tobacco and alcohol? if not, why not? if so, are you mormon? also, why are they idiots? try to extrapolate beyond your usual 'because its bullshit' analysis.

Wanna know the difference between the most commonly ab/used drugs? This BBC page clarifies what each does, how it looks etc.

There was an interesting episode of Horizon last night on the top 20 lethal drugs in common use in the UK. The show is still available on iPlayer.

Taking drugs on the train is just bad manners, but I get annoyed with people eating too...

Spacelab,

I had a problem with cigarettes, took me long enough to give up. But I have for 17 years so far.

I actually don't understand why cigarettes are still allowed to be sold, considering the numbers of people who have lung cancer and other illnesses brought on by smoking.

I never had a problem with booze. I now drink maybe 8 glasses of whisky a year.

This is my argument. Most people are able to smoke and drink in moderation and both activities do not usually lead to violence. Binge drinking on the other hand does lead to violence. So does illegal drug use, especially when money is unavailable to pay for the drugs.

Personally I would never tough recreational drugs, never have, never will. No use for them.

If you want to harm your health and wealth - fine by me. However, if your use turns into a sour, violent personality who then commits crimes of violence, then I could not care if you fall down a drain.

Well I watched a pretty interesting Horizon last night on BBC 2 on the subject basically it ranked drugs, both legal and illegal between 1-20.

Based on a few characteristics...

Social Impact (So alcohol in the UK has massive problems, was no 5 I think)

Recorded Deaths/Chance of o/d / Ability to get hooked

Toxicity etc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...x/drugs/watch/

Ecstasy was ranked 18, tobacco 9, alcohol 5, cocaine 2, heroin 1

It think it's time for a OPEN debate on the subject, otherwise how are we going to deal with the real issues to society?

IMHO i could not give x2 shites about pot smokers or e users they're hardly likely to attack me in the street are they?

They have little if no social impact apart from lying on a sofa babbling rubbish or having a great time at a club.

If you decriminalise the lot then..

a) Dealers cannot make profit (removes crime and whole host of other stuff, like arms trading etc)

b) Users are known and also less likely to commit crime if perscribed by a GP. Why steal something when it's free?

c) You can tax it

War on drugs just does not work, ask the US, they've spent billions on it. Yet users increase year on year.

The real solution is education as early as possible in school that is unbiased and truthful, open free drug rehab programs, and destroy the source of the drugs.

SPB alcohol is a recreational drug, just because it's legal makes it no different to other "illegal" drugs in overall affect.

That makes you as big a muppet as those that smoke pot in my eyes, but hey you're welcome to keep paying tax to fight the war on drugs forever. i'd rather have a solution that works for society.

Name one.

State specifically how a skunk factory differs from a garden center.

Ive worked with drug users and i have seen first hand the effects they have on People.Heroin does kill but its not just the drug itself but the purity of it.Noone who buys or peddles drugs know where they come from or who cuts the drugs or even what with and quite often a pure batch will come onto the streets, not realised by the user and he overdoses.I know users that have been taking heroin for 20 years and are still going strong and i know people that take it for the first or second time and ive found them dead. All drugs have the potential to kill and regardless of if its a cigarette or an E you are playing roulette with your life.

I dont think everyone dabbles at some stage in there life and we can either dig out the big dealers and distributors from around the world and in the mean time try and give as much information as possible on the dangers and risks.

I might add that i have seen more harm caused by alcohol than any other drug.

No tea rooms..?

Fewer pensioners / no tea room?

One interesting comment on the Horizon show - echoed by several psychopharmacologists - was "If alcohol was recently discovered, it would be a Class A drug."

Tea time!

True, but you do get it in 'coffee shops'...