View Poll Results: So, who can solve the question? 
Yes, I can solve it, call me Einstein
  12  70.59% 
No, I can't solve it, but I'm more of a big picture person anyway
  5  29.41%    
05.06.2015, 16:06
  Moderato espressivo   Join Date: May 2007 Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,145
Groaned at 40 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 8,993 Times in 2,760 Posts
  A mathematical Friday Thread
It appears that some kids are getting their knickers in a twist because their GCSE maths exam was too hard and have taken to twitter about it  Daily Fail Link
You lot are a smart lot, so who here can solve the question in question:  Quote:     There are n sweets in a bag. Six of the sweets are orange. The rest of the sweets are yellow.
Hannah takes a sweet from the bag. She eats the sweet. Hannah then takes at random another sweet from the bag. She eats the sweet.
The probability that Hannah eats two orange sweets is 1/3.
Show that n²n90=0      I'm ashamed to say that my maths is not that hot these days and it took a couple of minutes for me to figure it out.

05.06.2015, 16:22
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 11,478
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,334 Times in 5,679 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:     Emily Clarke added: 'My mum works for an accountancy company and it took 4 accountants 2hrs to answer the sweets Q. They have maths degrees.'      
05.06.2015, 16:22
 Forum Veteran   Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vaud
Posts: 936
Groaned at 74 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 916 Times in 553 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
N sweets.
A orange = 6
B rest = N6
Probability of taking 2 orange sweets:
all possibilities  in how many ways can we draw two sweets one after another, assuming we can tell sweets apart even if the’re of the same colour:
n(n1)  number of all possible sweets taking out, when order matters (it doesn’t but it is easier to count)
Basically at first you have a choice between N sweets, and then between N1.
In how many ways can one select two orange ones?
6(61) = 30
Probability P = 30 / (n(n1))
P is given as 1/3
So we have, after multiplying both sides by 3:
1 = 90 / (n(n1))
Now multiply both sides of the equation by n(n1)
(n(n1)) = 90
n2 n = 90
Last edited by yacek; 05.06.2015 at 16:24.
Reason: typos

05.06.2015, 16:27
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,806
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,421 Times in 6,661 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
10 sweets

05.06.2015, 16:31
  Moderato espressivo   Join Date: May 2007 Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,145
Groaned at 40 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 8,993 Times in 2,760 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      10 sweets      OK, right, but where does the question ask you to solve for n?
You don't need to solve n to show that n²n90=0 based on the information given.
Oh, and write your working down, boy as my teacher used to say.

05.06.2015, 16:36
 Forum Veteran   Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,338
Groaned at 219 Times in 150 Posts
Thanked 3,860 Times in 1,537 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      N sweets.
A orange = 6
B rest = N6
Probability of taking 2 orange sweets:
all possibilities  in how many ways can we draw two sweets one after another, assuming we can tell sweets apart even if the’re of the same colour:
n(n1)  number of all possible sweets taking out, when order matters (it doesn’t but it is easier to count)
Basically at first you have a choice between N sweets, and then between N1.
In how many ways can one select two orange ones?
6(61) = 30
Probability P = 30 / (n(n1))
P is given as 1/3
So we have, after multiplying both sides by 3:
1 = 90 / (n(n1))
Now multiply both sides of the equation by n(n1)
(n(n1)) = 90
n2 n = 90      Seems a bit of an overcomplicated way of doing a rather simple question:
P(Orange) = 6/n
P(2ndOrange) = 5/(n1)
6/n x 5/(n1) = 1/3
30/(n(n1) = 1/3
n(n1) = 90
n(squared)  n = 90
n(squared)  n  90 = 0
To calculate n you just stick the a b c into the quadratic formula and you will get 9 or 10 so the answer is 10

05.06.2015, 16:41
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 11,478
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,334 Times in 5,679 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      10 sweets      question was to derive the equation, not solve it. zero points. fail.
EDIT: if it is any consolation, you have the same reading comprehension/mathematical ability as the average Daily Mail reader (see comments: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments )

05.06.2015, 16:41
 Forum Veteran   Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,338
Groaned at 219 Times in 150 Posts
Thanked 3,860 Times in 1,537 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
Would be interested how any forum member's 16 year olds cope with this question. The English GCSE 16 year olds seem to be in melt down because it wasn't like past paper questions.
God forbid you're made to apply your knowledge in unfamiliar situations!

05.06.2015, 16:43
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,233
Groaned at 35 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 9,963 Times in 3,069 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      question was to derive the equation, not solve it. zero points. fail.
EDIT: if it is any consolation, you have the same reading comprehension/mathematical ability as the average Daily Mail reader (see comments: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments )      Nah, zero points is pretty harsh. He's only missing the last line of the derivation, after all:
"and since 10^2  10  90 = 0, it follows that n^2  n  90 = 0. Q.E.D."

05.06.2015, 16:47
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,806
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,421 Times in 6,661 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      question was to derive the equation, not solve it. zero points. fail.
EDIT: if it is any consolation, you have the same reading comprehension/mathematical ability as the average Daily Mail reader (see comments: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments )      In fact the only useful answer is 8  as that is the number of sweets remaining. However this then flags up that this can't possibly be a question from a UK maths paper. There is no way a fatty chub chub child in the UK is only going to have just 10 sweets in a bag unless this question is asked when the bag of sweets is already 90% eaten and/or the child can move onto a Mars bar and/or bottle of coke.

05.06.2015, 16:48
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 11,478
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,334 Times in 5,679 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
i saw similar practice questions p.14 onwards here: http://www.ocr.org.uk/Images/83374p...athematics.pdf
so it shouldn't be totally unfamiliar. i guess the multiplying out the probability for 2 events might have caught them out. perhaps the question could have walked them through it by breaking it down into parts.

05.06.2015, 16:51
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 11,478
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,334 Times in 5,679 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      In fact the only useful answer is 8  as that is the number of sweets remaining. However this then flags up that this can't possibly be a question from a UK maths paper. There is no way a fatty chub chub child in the UK is only going to have just 10 sweets in a bag unless this question is asked when the bag of sweets is already 90% eaten and/or the child can move onto a Mars bar and/or bottle of coke.      when i read: "The probability that Hannah eats two orange sweets is 1/3." i thought, this is surely wrong as she will eat all of them. but then i realised it didn't say that she eats only two orange sweets and doesn't account for the likelihood she eats only 2 sweets because the headscarf wearing illegal immigrants who got free housing next door beats her up and takes the remainder of her sweets while working illegally and claiming benefits after having 2 kids during their teen years. and now after this incident still cannot be deported due to the pesky human rights act.
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royaltyfree license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.

05.06.2015, 16:52
  Forum Veteran   Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Bellevue
Posts: 675
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1,589 Times in 430 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      I'm ashamed to say that my maths is not that hot these days and it took a couple of minutes for me to figure it out.      It took me just 30 seconds to figure out that I'm not able to figure it out.
Just looking at this question makes me feel lightheaded; I'm like 0mg!

05.06.2015, 16:53
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 11,478
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,334 Times in 5,679 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
for those wanting more of a challenge, here is the GCSE question from Phil_MCR's exam paper:
"aliyah and amina are two lesbian illegal immigrants. assuming under the human rights act, they can claim free IVF treatment costing £3000 per attempt and the probability of success is 30% per attempt. they can attempt to have a treatment once every 6 months and no treatment for a year after a successful attempt (from start of treatment).
during this time they get free housing costing £2000 per month and ancillary support services, free transport etc. of £300 per week.
once a child is born, they will receive support of £200 per month for the first child and £150 per month for each subsequent child.
they want to have two chilren.
assuming that only one child is born at a time, calculate the expected cost to the tax payer until the youngest child reaches the age of 16.
(12 marks)"
i obviously missed my calling as an maths exam paper writer.
That's MathNut's Friday evening sorted!
__________________
By replying to this post, you hereby grant Phil_MCR a royaltyfree license to use, in any way, anything posted by you on the internet. If you do not accept, stop using EF and delete your account.
Last edited by Phil_MCR; 05.06.2015 at 17:08.

05.06.2015, 16:54
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,970
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,252 Times in 5,009 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
Took me longer to write this than figure out the answer. And I'm a touchtypist.
1/3 = (6/n) . (5/(n1)) = 30 / (n(n1)) => n²n90=0
About O level standard, I'd say.

05.06.2015, 16:56
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,806
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,421 Times in 6,661 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:     Oh, and write your working down, boy as my teacher used to say.      And apparently it is neither big nor clever to respond with "Why? Don't you know how to do it."

05.06.2015, 16:58
 Forum Legend   Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,650
Groaned at 152 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,561 Times in 3,217 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
I really miss the times of Friday threads about toilet flushing, smokers, bikes and dogs.

05.06.2015, 17:07
  A singular modality   Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,857
Groaned at 167 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,899 Times in 3,983 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread
The biggest problem I see with this question is that it doesn't explain what n is, but expects you to know the standard terminology. I hate that sort of thing, always did.
Would much prefer if it just asked you to work out how many sweets there were at the start,

05.06.2015, 17:12
  Forum Legend   Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 11,478
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,334 Times in 5,679 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      The biggest problem I see with this question is that it doesn't explain what n is, but expects you to know the standard terminology. I hate that sort of thing, always did.
Would much prefer if it just asked you to work out how many sweets there were at the start,      But it tells you in the first sentence. 
05.06.2015, 17:16
 Forum Veteran   Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,338
Groaned at 219 Times in 150 Posts
Thanked 3,860 Times in 1,537 Posts
  Re: A mathematical Friday Thread  Quote:      The biggest problem I see with this question is that it doesn't explain what n is, but expects you to know the standard terminology. I hate that sort of thing, always did.
Would much prefer if it just asked you to work out how many sweets there were at the start,      'There are n sweets in a bag' 
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)   Thread Tools   Display Modes  Linear Mode 
Posting Rules
 You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off    All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:54.  