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Old 20.03.2016, 19:14
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Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

With the capture of the Paris ringleader and him refusing to be extradited it got me thinking - we have freedom of movment in the EU because not only are we citizens of our country but also of the European Union as outlined in the Maastricht Treaty and Schengen. So shouldn't there also be a clause that states that within that same EU/Schengen Area citizens can be extradited without all the rigmarole of court proceedings? We have the freedom to live and work wherever we want so why shouldn't such a clause be possible? After all he freely made use of the freedom of movement to flee back to Belgium from France. Now that he's been arrested shouldn't it be a simple matter to send him back to France without getting the courts involved?

The same with the mafia bosses in Switzerland who are refusing to be extradited back to Italy.
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Old 20.03.2016, 19:35
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

I understand any European court can issue an EU arrest warrant, and the culprit is brought before the judge, without the need for an extradition.

https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_...rrant-90-en.do maybe Switzerland hasn't signed up for this one yet?
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Old 20.03.2016, 19:52
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

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With the capture of the Paris ringleader and him refusing to be extradited it got me thinking - we have freedom of movment in the EU because not only are we citizens of our country but also of the European Union as outlined in the Maastricht Treaty and Schengen. So shouldn't there also be a clause that states that within that same EU/Schengen Area citizens can be extradited without all the rigmarole of court proceedings? We have the freedom to live and work wherever we want so why shouldn't such a clause be possible? After all he freely made use of the freedom of movement to flee back to Belgium from France. Now that he's been arrested shouldn't it be a simple matter to send him back to France without getting the courts involved?

The same with the mafia bosses in Switzerland who are refusing to be extradited back to Italy.
With all due respect, he is suspected of being the ringleader & must be presumed innocent until proved guilty in a court of law.

Due process must always take place.
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Old 20.03.2016, 20:17
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

As far as I can see Sbrinz he still has to agree to surrender under a European Warrant. If he refuses then the court gets involved. That shouldn't be possible.

And why would sending him back to France without involving the court have anything to do with his presumed innocence or guilt fatmanfilms? Due process still takes place, just without the hassle of getting him back to France. Why is it okay for him to use the free movment to flee across borders, but not to use the same free movement to bring him back?
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Old 20.03.2016, 20:29
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

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As far as I can see Sbrinz he still has to agree to surrender under a European Warrant. If he refuses then the court gets involved. That shouldn't be possible.

And why would sending him back to France without involving the court have anything to do with his presumed innocence or guilt fatmanfilms? Due process still takes place, just without the hassle of getting him back to France. Why is it okay for him to use the free movment to flee across borders, but not to use the same free movement to bring him back?
Free movement is exercised by ones own choice, so it's not the same thing at all.
The requirement to surrender was clearly required at the time the law was written, the court should get involved & see if there is any evidence first before sending him anywhere.
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Old 20.03.2016, 20:34
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

I'm quite happy that some random judge in some random foreign country like Rumania or Estonia can't just decide on a whim that I should be arrested and sent there, just because I happen to be burdened with a little purple passport.

What's good for a suspected terrorist is good for me too, and I'm satisfied with that.
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Old 20.03.2016, 22:52
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

The basic timeframe for extradition is 60 days, but could be extended in SA's case to 90 days as I understand it.
It does seem strange that they should need to wait 60 days to get their hands on him when he's just over the border, and he had no problem waltzing in and out, but that is how the law is set up.
What went down with Roman Polanski getting nabbed as he stepped off a plane in CH? Didn't he get shipped off to the US pronto?

Last edited by Britething; 20.03.2016 at 23:08.
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Old 20.03.2016, 22:55
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

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What went down with Roman Polanski getting nabbed as he stepped off a plane in CH? Didn't he get shipped off to the US pronto?
No, he stayed in his Chalet in CH.
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Old 20.03.2016, 23:15
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

Not quite the same thing anyway as the US isn't part of the EU.
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Old 20.03.2016, 23:42
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

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Not quite the same thing anyway as the US isn't part of the EU.
Of course, I just wondered if the US managed eventually to nab him, as they'd waited so long. I thought he *was* eventually sent back for trial.

Often the agreements between nations regarding extradition are tit-for-tat laws, anyway.
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Old 21.03.2016, 03:53
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

The accused must be suspected of an offence carrying at least 12 months in prison for an EAW to be authorised. Terrorism and murder are on the list,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant

The Framework Decision prescribes time limits for the making of a final decision to a surrender request. Where a requested person consents to his or her surrender, the executing judicial authority should make a final decision within ten days of such a consent. Where a requested person refuses to consent to his or her surrender, the executing judicial authority should make a final decision within 60 days of the arrest.[26] In 2011 the European Commission reported that the average time for the surrender of persons who consented was 16 days while the average time for those who did not consent was 48.6 days.[27]
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Old 21.03.2016, 06:29
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

This from sudouest.fr (in French) :

"Pour décider d'autoriser son extradition, la justice belge devra uniquement statuer sur la validité du mandat d'arrêt de la justice française. Cette décision interviendra "dans un délai de 60 jours à compter de son arrestation", ou de 90 jours en cas de recours, a affirmé samedi le ministère français de la Justice."

His (SA's) lawyer has said he will appeal.

Last edited by Britething; 21.03.2016 at 09:20. Reason: Added for clarity
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Old 21.03.2016, 08:26
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

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Of course, I just wondered if the US managed eventually to nab him, as they'd waited so long. I thought he *was* eventually sent back for trial.

Often the agreements between nations regarding extradition are tit-for-tat laws, anyway.
Nope. They tried again when he went to Poland on a visit, but they refused to extradite him back to the US too.

"On 26 September 2009, Polanski was arrested while in Switzerland at the request of United States authorities.[18] The arrest brought renewed attention to the case and stirred controversy, particularly in the United States and Europe.[112] Polanski was defended by many prominent individuals, including Hollywood celebrities and European artists and politicians, who called for his release.[119] American public opinion was reported to run against him, however,[120][121] and polls in France and Poland showed that strong majorities favored his extradition to the United States.[122][123]

Polanski was jailed near Zürich for two months, then put under house arrest at his home in Gstaad while awaiting decision of appeals fighting extradition.[124] On 12 July 2010, the Swiss rejected the United States' request, declared Polanski a "free man" and released him from custody.[125] He remains the subject of an Interpol red notice issued in 2005 at the request of the United States.[126]

During a television interview on 10 March 2011, Geimer blamed the media, reporters, the court, and the judge for causing "way more damage to [her] and [her] family than anything Roman Polanski has ever done", and opined that the judge was using her and Polanski for the media exposure.[127]

In January 2014, newly uncovered emails by a Los Angeles County Superior Court judge[who?] from 2008, indicated that if Polanski returned to the United States for a hearing, the conduct of the judge who had originally presided over the case might require that Polanski be freed. These emails were related to a 2008 documentary film by Marina Zenovich.[128][129] In late October 2014, Polanski was questioned by prosecutors in Kraków.[130]

On October 30, 2015, Polish judge Dariusz Mazur denied a request by the United States to extradite Polanski for a full trial, claiming that it would be “obviously unlawful.” Polanski holds dual citizenship with Poland and France.[131] The court's decision was confirmed on November 27, 2015, saying it will not extradite Polanski. Prosecutors declined to challenge the court's ruling, agreeing that Polanski had served his punishment and did not need to face a U.S. court again. Preparations for a movie he was working on about the Dreyfus affair had been stalled by the extradition request from last year."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_...ual_abuse_case
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Old 21.03.2016, 12:29
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Re: Drop necessity for extradiction proceedings within EU

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As far as I can see Sbrinz he still has to agree to surrender under a European Warrant. If he refuses then the court gets involved. That shouldn't be possible.

And why would sending him back to France without involving the court have anything to do with his presumed innocence or guilt fatmanfilms? Due process still takes place, just without the hassle of getting him back to France. Why is it okay for him to use the free movment to flee across borders, but not to use the same free movement to bring him back?
Because his flight happened by his own choice. Extradicting him is one of the severest infringements on the right to self-determination as well as Niederlassungsfreiheit (freedom of establishment?). Such must not happen without good cause thus requires a court verdict.

Innocent until proven guilty!
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