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  #21  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:21
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Re: Food For Thought

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who doesn't detract from the other ...

MC the basics of Kohlberg's theory of moral development is still so relevant today- and not just in education, but world politics.
Like how impossible it is to expect a dictatorship to become a democracy almost overnight.
I was doing some reading on edu ethics lately - it is interesting how ethics are really portayed as dispositions of intellect. And pedagogical ethical conduct as intelligent pedagogical conduct. So you can say - that a teacher is unethical/not intelligent. I think I like that particular synonymy.
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  #22  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:23
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Re: Food For Thought

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He said: "We shall love an evil person, but not his evilness". Does it make sense, in English?
Hate the sin, love the sinner.
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  #23  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:32
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Re: Food For Thought

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Hate the sin, love the sinner.
Yes, that. How far is the idea of this noble generosity when contrasted with the TED and our desire to just use people for approval, validation.

He would never instruct anyone to hate anything, really. He dared to criticise the corrupted catholic church (Wicleff, Hus, Zwingli, Calvin and Luther..), but even then infiltrated to change it from within, to avoid conflicts. It was his opportunistic disciple who pawned him over to Constanz, had him jailed for two years and burnt on a stake. He wouldn't call off his truth. He started a tradition of people in our history who gave up life in the name of philosophy, truth and ethics.

Where love is in that...I guess, love is a big thing that needs care. One way to care is to question.
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  #24  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:41
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Re: Food For Thought

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Good vid, think he's half right - and channeling a lot of long argued ideas around the vacuum of the self. But he says that he is useless and that is clearly wrong since someone , maybe his wife or his child clearly values him... which also explains the desire to produce one who loves you unconditionally no matter how awful you think/know yourself to be.

EDIT... Yes I listen to a lot of Leonard Cohen
RIP Leonard Cohen, he was great.

I think disregarding those who love you is egocentric. So if one feels useless, he doesn't see his use to others, maybe it just shows lack of empathy. I agree with you.
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  #25  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:50
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Re: Food For Thought

RIP? I thought Leonard Cohen was still alive.
At least, his new release was in August this year, 2016.
http://www.leonardcohen.com/2016/08
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  #26  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:52
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Re: Food For Thought

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RIP Leonard Cohen, he was great.

I think disregarding those who love you is egocentric. So if one feels useless, he doesn't see his use to others, maybe it just shows lack of empathy. I agree with you.
When did Leonard Cohen die? You mean the canadian musician, right? As far as I can tell, we've not lost him.
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  #27  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:52
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Re: Food For Thought

Argh, you are right. Why did I think he died..

*MC apologizes profusely to L. Cohen.
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  #28  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:56
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Re: Food For Thought

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When did Leonard Cohen die? You mean the canadian musician, right? As far as I can tell, we've not lost him.
MC has a point. Last I heard he was still performing, but he has looked like he was dead for a while.
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  #29  
Old 10.10.2016, 22:58
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Re: Food For Thought

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MC has a point. Last I heard he was still performing, but he has looked like he was dead for a while.
I was imagining poor Jan Hus burning on a stake in 15th centy so much that I have burried Cohen. Ack.
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  #30  
Old 10.10.2016, 23:00
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Re: Food For Thought

We are digressing, are we not. I'll always remember Cohen at the Isle of Wight, 1970. Suzanne is still one of my favourite songs ever.
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  #31  
Old 10.10.2016, 23:04
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Re: Food For Thought

It is a Food For Thought Thread, I didn't mean it solely on Love and the TED.

Are people willing to stick to love more than they used to, or less, btw?

Last edited by MusicChick; 10.10.2016 at 23:14.
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  #32  
Old 10.10.2016, 23:16
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Re: Food For Thought

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It is a Food For Thought Thread, I didn't mean it solely on Love and the TED.

Are people willing to stick for love more than they used to, or less, btw?
Stick for love more, or less, in comparison to when?

Compared to 50 years ago, I think people stayed together more often, and for longer periods. If that was because the loved more, or they loved with a different set of expectations, and a different level of tolerance - I can't say.

I think people are more scared nowadays. Scared that the future might not be as rosy as they wish, scared that they might have bound themselves to the wrong person, scared that they might be missing out, or having the most excellent life that the fast paced consumer age implies is just at our fingertips, if we only buy the right stuff at the right price and have it delivered tomorrow.
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  #33  
Old 10.10.2016, 23:24
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Re: Food For Thought

I think less, because they don't have to. Financial independence doesn't oblige them. It is sad. I read Sweden had the highest rate of divorce, the most independent singles and free day care. And nobody wants to date or share an apartment. I wonder if it is good for soul, maybe it is. Maybe we do better as hermits.

As per love and longetivity - apparently married people live longer. Hmmm. I can see that, too. Shared joy, chemical works, company..
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  #34  
Old 10.10.2016, 23:37
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Re: Food For Thought

If people stick together because of the financial dependency (usually female) or because of societal expectations and compliance - then we are no longer talking about 'love' though.

Love changes, love transforms and progresses... Those of us who have chosen to stay together for life are very privileged, some will say lucky.

But yes, expectations are very high nowadays- and lows are often not accepted and result in separation- when compromise and patience may have very different long term relationship.

Last edited by Odile; 10.10.2016 at 23:57.
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  #35  
Old 10.10.2016, 23:41
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Re: Food For Thought

I am not sure if expectations changed. Maybe the effort put in changed, or responsibility. Maybe the feeling of responsibility for another person has been disappearing.
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  #36  
Old 11.10.2016, 10:51
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Re: Food For Thought

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RIP Leonard Cohen, he was great.

I think disregarding those who love you is egocentric. So if one feels useless, he doesn't see his use to others, maybe it just shows lack of empathy. I agree with you.
If you think of the word "cool" and it's meaning - "of being cool to the world" then I think you're on the right track... not acknowledging but actively shunning love has come to be a virtue... which no surprise knaws at the soul of the human.
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Old 11.10.2016, 10:56
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Re: Food For Thought

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I think less, because they don't have to. Financial independence doesn't oblige them. It is sad. I read Sweden had the highest rate of divorce, the most independent singles and free day care. And nobody wants to date or share an apartment. I wonder if it is good for soul, maybe it is. Maybe we do better as hermits.

As per love and longetivity - apparently married people live longer. Hmmm. I can see that, too. Shared joy, chemical works, company..
No man is an island. We are wired to live as pack animals. The rates of heart attack, cancer and suicide are all higher for single people. Not to say we don't drive each other crazy (what's that phrase "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em).

The traditional marriage vows "for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health" if you actually step back and look at what they mean, should provide food for thought.

So many couples balk at the first fence. If you're in for the long haul, then you will have to put up with some crap, and some crappy times, imo.

Last edited by Britething; 11.10.2016 at 10:58. Reason: typo
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  #38  
Old 11.10.2016, 16:55
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Re: Food For Thought

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I am not sure if expectations changed. Maybe the effort put in changed, or responsibility. Maybe the feeling of responsibility for another person has been disappearing.
Oh, I do think that expectations have changed... and I'm talking now specifically about marriage, and predominantly about "the Western world" (whatever that may be).

For the past hundred or two hundred years, up until eighty or even fifty years ago, marrying definitely brought a complete change of social status, and entailed a commitment (I don't mean emotional or loving, necessarily) which society wished to be upheld. Being a spouse entailed certain set roles, and leaving a spouse was not tolerated. Marriage was definitely perceived as a bond which was supposed to be treated as irrevocable, and which lasted until death one did part. In some cases, this parting, finally, through death, was the only release from a dark and awful place.

Now, people are more likely to expect marriage to be about love. Since the societal reasons to marry hold less pressure than before, love has come to be regarded as the central most important reason to marry, if at all. Other than permits, of course. Another reason is to establish the rights of children to access to their parents, particularly in case those parents ever split up.

On the other hand, there are new forms of responsibility. He ain't heavy, he's my brother... many people could happily sing that song about a good friend, just not, please, about one's spouse or one's own biological brother. Our society permits us to be freer not to shoulder responsibility for all our aunties and uncles and our mother's cousin's children, yet we now take on care for people of our own choosing, and say, instead: "My friends are my family."

People who are not involved in a partnership may well have more time to engage in other projects, or make commitments to areas of social responsibility. This does not have to mean diminished effort, not at all, but the focus of the responsibility may be less set on one particular individual.

Having brought more-than-one-person into it, there are myriad forms of relationships out there now, which may always have been there, in secret, but now people are becoming more and more free to say: "My husband and I have an open relationship," or "We live don't ask, don't tell," or "We talk very openly about living polyamorously."

Even without the poly or multi aspect, our society seems to be coming through on the other side of divorce necessarily having to be a full-on, life-consuming war, and it is now common for ex-spouses to be allowed to greet one another (and perhaps their respective new partners) cordially at a family gathering.

Children easily explain that "my brother and I have the same dad, but we each have a different mom," and they may even know each other's mom, and think she's quite nice.

We're at liberty to say that we don't feel a personal need to attend a parent's funeral, though that we might choose to do so because we like Aunt Esmeralda, or the parent's neighbour.

I don't think there's less love, nor less commitment, nor less responsibility.
I do think that there is less burden in the responsibility, because it is not seen quite so much as automatically compulsory. The more we perceive ourselves (and each other) as free agents, the freer we are to decide whom to love, and how intensely or fleetingly, and for only as long as and to the degree to which it suits both parties.
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