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Old 01.10.2016, 18:24
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Food For Thought

Alrighty,

let us dig out some inspirational stuff that makes us stop and think. Something a little philosophical, or semantic...or ethical, or just curious finds and random thoughts that make you pause these days or don't want to deliberately leave your mind.


I watched this a few days ago, and I am still not sure if I like this because the way he orates, or because if is a nice French practice, or because the idea of being valued, validated and praised certainly is so important to most modern souls so I think he might be right about the frequent dynamics (despite of me not feeling this need myself, tbh).

https://www.ted.com/talks/yann_dall_...ng?language=en

I think I am not so sure about the need for validation and depending on other people's ideas of our own worth. Somehow fiestiness, controversy, opposition, temperament always gave me more to think about than people giving me random thumbs up.

What are your thoughts? Is he right? Are we that dependent while it feels the entire world is ostentatiously trying to feel the least dependent, uncommitted and liberated? Is the dependency uncool because people mistake it for a weakness? When it is in fact an act of strength? Or is love really that selfish these days? People need one another, own up to it yet only look for satisfying an inner void?

What are your foods for thoughts these days? Inspirations?
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Old 02.10.2016, 00:42
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Re: Food For Thought

Is that a million words simply asking 'what inspires you'?
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Old 02.10.2016, 00:53
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Re: Food For Thought

I like you MusicChick, but if asking me to spend 10 minutes watching a Ted talk on love (urghh) wasn't enough.. I also have to watch it in French.

Sorry doll, ain't happening
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Old 02.10.2016, 02:35
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Re: Food For Thought

Interesting MC, I enjoyed it but far too late and too tired to respond now.

He is however talking about the future of love and the possible ways it could develop - based on what is happening now. Will listen to it again tomorrow.
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Old 02.10.2016, 10:05
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Re: Food For Thought

I found it interesting. The question "What does something mean once you've recognised the fog of meaningless around it?" has always been at the core of existential thought, and I think he handles it in a rather adroit, thought provoking, manner - certainly more accessible than a great many existential thinkers.

A cogent take on the human condition.
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Old 02.10.2016, 11:55
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Re: Food For Thought

MC: '
I think I am not so sure about the need for validation and depending on other people's ideas of our own worth. Somehow fiestiness, controversy, opposition, temperament always gave me more to think about than people giving me random thumbs up.'

This totally resonates with me. I think that from a young age, some people, (and others at later at some stage)- decide that 'fitting in' to please others in order to receive 'love' or acceptation, is just not the way they want to proceed forwards. Could happen because of a traumatic event, or be slower.

You (one) then has to find a 'niche' of sorts where you will fit in with people who are more 'like you'/on same wave length- be it a club of some sort, a Church, a political party, etc- where the selection of people there makes you feel more valued or 'loved' as he says.

Have you ever read Kohlberg's theory on moral development? It's really interesting and would certainly fit in well with this TedTalk- re different stages people go through- from fitting in for fear of punishment, to fitting in to be accepted, to different stages to more autonomous thought and self-worth too.
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Old 02.10.2016, 12:39
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Re: Food For Thought

I'm not too bothered about feistiness, opposition, controversy etc. either way. These can be as genuine or ungenuine as anything else.

Give me a person who seems to have at least considered the question "Why would I want to take on someone else's guess as to the meaning of life - even if they were right, how would I know? How would they? Would that "right" apply to me, them, or everyone?"

Most people who present themselves as having figured it all out just haven't been asking the right questions.

Last edited by JagWaugh; 02.10.2016 at 12:44. Reason: added a bit.
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Old 09.10.2016, 23:28
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Re: Food For Thought

Had to wait for things to calm down a little - but I thought about his way of looking at our needs. I am not entire sure if he was talking about our human needs in general, because that what he basically said, forget love, it is neediness, validation, approval, appraisal, etc. Or love - as we know it, something that happens to one.

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I found it interesting. The question "What does something mean once you've recognised the fog of meaningless around it?" has always been at the core of existential thought, and I think he handles it in a rather adroit, thought provoking, manner - certainly more accessible than a great many existential thinkers.

A cogent take on the human condition.
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Old 09.10.2016, 23:49
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Re: Food For Thought

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MC: '
I think I am not so sure about the need for validation and depending on other people's ideas of our own worth. Somehow fiestiness, controversy, opposition, temperament always gave me more to think about than people giving me random thumbs up.'

This totally resonates with me. I think that from a young age, some people, (and others at later at some stage)- decide that 'fitting in' to please others in order to receive 'love' or acceptation, is just not the way they want to proceed forwards. Could happen because of a traumatic event, or be slower.

You (one) then has to find a 'niche' of sorts where you will fit in with people who are more 'like you'/on same wave length- be it a club of some sort, a Church, a political party, etc- where the selection of people there makes you feel more valued or 'loved' as he says.

Have you ever read Kohlberg's theory on moral development? It's really interesting and would certainly fit in well with this TedTalk- re different stages people go through- from fitting in for fear of punishment, to fitting in to be accepted, to different stages to more autonomous thought and self-worth too.
Conformism is an interesting concept, isn't. Some people seem to conform, want to hear from others how "within the guidelines" they are...Others welcome challenges and testing the limits. I think what makes love special in this is the risk of getting hurt, by somebody we need, feeling rejected, even if it is the risk only imagined. I would hate to be constantly opposed though, me thinks, or constantly approved. Isn't it disagreement, discord, that stimulates learning, though..Love is a big quest to learn about ourselves.

Kohlberg, mais oui. We had to do apart from our teaching degree also a 5 year PSY program with state licensing. All teachers back home have to do that. Hello Piaget, Kohlberg, Erikson, etc. Kohlberg was criticised, by his own disciples, it is interesting to go through that. He is still being questioned on his methodology, and mainly on gender questions, but as anything trendy, it wore off. He still stands strong, and I pretty much agree with him, after 22 years of teaching. It is a bit bleak, how few make it to the latest stage.

I am not sure, though, aside of conformism and need to be validated, how much ethics in general have to do with selfless love. Kids, often pictured as innocently egocentric, usually love the most selfless way, generous and constant, loyal, a model for us, grown ups.

If you think one is ethically ok, does not weigh on the other one, self sufficient and all the jazz that is currently en vogue, avoiding being co/dependent, etc. - what if it just simply means one does not love that particular person enough? It is easy to be not so attached then and need little and not need being validated and all the things shrinks are not happy to see and philosophers describe..

Does not depth automatically mean attachment and need to be liked by the other one? I know I am not looking for acceptance, stimuli maybe more...but I also know nature and the whole chemistry makes it that way, for a brief period of time there is this idolizing-worshipping phase.
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Old 10.10.2016, 00:02
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Re: Food For Thought

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What are your thoughts? Is he right? Are we that dependent while it feels the entire world is ostentatiously trying to feel the least dependent, uncommitted and liberated? Is the dependency uncool because people mistake it for a weakness? When it is in fact an act of strength? Or is love really that selfish these days? People need one another, own up to it yet only look for satisfying an inner void?

What are your foods for thoughts these days? Inspirations?
Good vid, think he's half right - and channeling a lot of long argued ideas around the vacuum of the self. But he says that he is useless and that is clearly wrong since someone , maybe his wife or his child clearly values him... which also explains the desire to produce one who loves you unconditionally no matter how awful you think/know yourself to be.

EDIT... Yes I listen to a lot of Leonard Cohen
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Old 10.10.2016, 00:07
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Re: Food For Thought

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I'm not too bothered about feistiness, opposition, controversy etc. either way. These can be as genuine or ingenuine as anything else.

Give me a person who seems to have at least considered the question "Why would I want to take on someone else's guess as to the meaning of life - even if they were right, how would I know? How would they? Would that "right" apply to me, them, or everyone?"

Most people who present themselves as having figured it all out just haven't been asking the right questions.
I think cohesion-lack of it, or conformism or nonconformism is usually more noticed once people disagree with us. People take it as a threat too often. I think "oh yeah, totally" is not going to make me think while "wait, what it is a whole different thing all together" will make me think.

As per people figuring stuff out or thinking they have, and all of it - I have been thinking for quite a while how annoying people are, when they are too self assured. I think I subconsciously veer towards the minds who question, who are not afraid to live in constant flow of doubts, and affirmations and discoveries. People expect approval everywhere these days. Self assured and extroverted, has somehow become an ideal, it translates to smart, which is often not true. There are reports about questioning people and introverted actually doing more thinking than those who are overtly self assured. I wonder if introverts love differently.

When I watched that video - tbh, I thought, bouncy curls, we will have a spiel on l'amour, passion, chemistry. How he summed it up, though, was the opposite of the stereotype. I liked it, it was pretty clear, mechanical, actually. I think regular trans analysis psychology is based on this. Berne is a master. But I still have a different opinion, I see the whole bond as an adventure, often irrational, intuitive and most of all fun. I think that risk of rejection is making us inherently better, humble. A challenge, teaching us about ourselves. Not a way to fix some deficit from before or a game where we exchange points and are dependent on some kind of currency.
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Old 10.10.2016, 11:38
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I like you MusicChick, but if asking me to spend 10 minutes watching a Ted talk on love (urghh) wasn't enough.. I also have to watch it in French.

Sorry doll, ain't happening
I wouldn't mind the French bit, but I never understand why people want to watch this sort of thing in the first place. If you're not happy being who or what you are surely the last thing you need is some quack peddling ideas that will only reinforce your feelings of inadequacy or rejection.

See a psychologist if you need help working out how to be happier, or just be yourself.

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I think cohesion-lack of it, or conformism or nonconformism is usually more noticed once people disagree with us. People take it as a threat too often. I think "oh yeah, totally" is not going to make me think while "wait, what it is a whole different thing all together" will make me think.

As per people figuring stuff out or thinking they have, and all of it - I have been thinking for quite a while how annoying people are, when they are too self assured. I think I subconsciously veer towards the minds who question, who are not afraid to live in constant flow of doubts, and affirmations and discoveries. People expect approval everywhere these days. Self assured and extroverted, has somehow become an ideal, it translates to smart, which is often not true. There are reports about questioning people and introverted actually doing more thinking than those who are overtly self assured. I wonder if introverts love differently.

When I watched that video - tbh, I thought, bouncy curls, we will have a spiel on l'amour, passion, chemistry. How he summed it up, though, was the opposite of the stereotype. I liked it, it was pretty clear, mechanical, actually. I think regular trans analysis psychology is based on this. Berne is a master. But I still have a different opinion, I see the whole bond as an adventure, often irrational, intuitive and most of all fun. I think that risk of rejection is making us inherently better, humble. A challenge, teaching us about ourselves. Not a way to fix some deficit from before or a game where we exchange points and are dependent on some kind of currency.
It appears to be English, but not as we know it.
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Old 10.10.2016, 11:46
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Re: Food For Thought

As teachers and prospective teachers, these are very important questions to consider ACE1- as they truly impact how one behaves with and react to, students.
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Old 10.10.2016, 12:27
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Re: Food For Thought

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As teachers and prospective teachers, these are very important questions to consider ACE1- as they truly impact how one behaves with and react to, students.
I just treat them like fellow human beings. I don't need any fancy philosophy to do that.
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Old 10.10.2016, 19:52
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Re: Food For Thought

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As teachers and prospective teachers, these are very important questions to consider ACE1- as they truly impact how one behaves with and react to, students.
I think it is not only a pedagogical question (I completely agree that teachers should know what people intrinsically go for). It is a philosophical question. And mainly psychological, I am sure people find help and inspiration in that guy's TED, actually. Maybe some revelation, he is not bad.

How many times were philosophical questions discredited as a luxury, intellectual snobbery or pointless mental exercise. I think all philosophical questions and all philosophers are treated that way. That kind of attitude is quite materialistic (to hell with philo), it doesn't surprise me.

The philosopher in TED (those are the antipole of fancy) is actually very mechanical and materialistic, too. There is some appeal in the simplicity, though. I am not saying it is correct or alligned with my thoughts, but it appeals. The rhetorics is catchy as well. It is so void of poetry it creates poetry on its own.
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Old 10.10.2016, 20:00
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Re: Food For Thought

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to hell with philo
Spanakopita is quite nice, though?
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Old 10.10.2016, 21:21
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Re: Food For Thought

I'd say that philosopher's dispositions grow with full stomach.

We say back home, too, that "love goes 1st through one's stomach".
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Old 10.10.2016, 21:57
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Re: Food For Thought

Thank you, Music Chick. Interesting thread.
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Old 10.10.2016, 22:03
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Re: Food For Thought

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I just treat them like fellow human beings. I don't need any fancy philosophy to do that.
One doesn't detract from the other ...truly.

MC the basics of Kohlberg's theory of moral development is still so relevant today- and not just in education, but world politics.
Like how impossible it is to expect a dictatorship to become a democracy almost overnight.

Last edited by Odile; 10.10.2016 at 22:34.
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Old 10.10.2016, 22:16
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Re: Food For Thought

Yeah - I had a debate over Jan Hus and his heritage today. So much love/faith/ethics/guts/the right form of idealism..he was not a philosopher per se, but then every thinker was one, at those times.

He said: "We shall love an evil person, but not his evilness". Does it make sense, in English?
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