This is a follow-on from another thread where some poor sod asked a simple question about budgeting, only to have it hijacked by a Pure Food Person. Rather than take that thread any further off topic, here is my rant:

Dear Pure Food Person: When you buy bio-meat, do you really believe that the cow, or pig, or sheep died in any way other than having its throat cut, on a metal tressel, in a cold, concrete building filled with terrified animals, blood, partly digested stomach contents and excrement? Did your bio cow, perhaps, get sent softly to sleep on a comfortable bed of straw to the sound of Mozart, before being carefully dismembered by specially trained veterinary surgeons, who stroked her behind her ears as they removed her bowels with a padded spoon?

When you buy your rice milk, do you really believe that the poor underpaid sod on the production line didn't pick her nose or forget to wash her grubby hands before sitting down at the belt to begin her long, soul destroying day (she has dreams of playing first violin in an orchestra, but oh, how our dreams are dashed by the demands of a consumer society!)?

When you buy your vegetables at the local farm, do you really believe that the wretched immigrant farm labourer, living several thousand miles from his family in a shabby caravan in the corner of a boggy field, is particularly bothered about that lump of cow manure that had adhered to your bunch of carrots, the maggots dropping sated onto the ground as he pulls it out of the sodden earth?

Everything you put into your mouth is corrupted, is filthy, is stained by the exploitation of people and animals, is the product of an industrial system you claim to despise. Every piece of meat you eat is the product of the death of a traumatised animal. Every vegetable you eat is the product of a system of dehumanisation that results in people having to leave their own countries in order to earn enough money to raise a family. Every packaged product you purchase is the consequence of a long chain of industrialised processes, in which miserable people work in miserable jobs merely to feed your need for something nice to put on the table.

Of course, those of us who are not Pure Food People are also eating the same products of a vile and corrupt system, our Migros Budget beef having been slaughtered in the same slaughterhouse, our canned peas having been picked by the same exploited labourer, our shrink wrapped pasta having been packed by the same miserable factory worker.

The difference is that we don't consider ourselves to be 'a cut above' anybody else.

We're all part of the same system, whether we eat Budget or Bio.

Now let's quit the proselytisation, shall we?

Strong words to make a good point DB.

I'd switch to Soylent Green Diet but I suspect that would raise a few hackles.

So very true Dougal's Breakfast..

Hi DB can you link to the aforementioned budgeting thread please?

Monthly Expenses

Here you go:
Monthly Expenses

EDIT: Dang! Not quick enough!

If bio meat is so good why is there a pool of water at the bottom of my frying pan each time I have cooked a packet of chopped beef/veal/pork?

It's a con I tells ya!

If I am going to have water in my meat I'd rather opt for the budget priced water.

Or buy it from a man who knows his meat - oo-er, missus...

Slightly off topic, but I bet that would work. For Pure Food People that are happy with the bio food Production but unhappy that the cow had such a miserable death you could start a Super-Bio-Food brand where the cow not only wanders happily in the field nibbling grass during its lifetime but is specifically sent to the slaughter in the nicest possible way as mentioned above - though I would have Brahms played myself - so you know it was happy until the very end.

Call it "Way To Go Foods Incorporated" or something.

I bet you'd make a packet.

Have to agree.

I worked for a large vegetable and fruit packing and food processing company in the UK and apart from the fields have not had chemicals in them and controls on type of sprays, there was no difference.

There is more and more closeness between the Standard and Bio anyway and when products are sourced from abroad when out of season (spring onions from Egypt for example) the Standard were the same as the Bio.

Bio-Food will fade away or integrate with Standard-Food as the recesiion bites. Remember the environmental cleaning products of the late 80's (Special isles for them) all disappeared when the recession came of the early nighties.

Animal wellfare is important and it is the abatoir section that I think is the worst element. The animals know they are going to die.

It's a well known fact that water is sold kilo for kilo at one of the highest prices for any foodstuff. Personally I buy minced beef from Aldi - joking aside I find it's better quality that either Coop or Migros, has less water content (judging by the frying pan test you describe above) and it is actually affordable averaging I think around 6CHF for 500g compared with often over twice that for Coop.

EDIT: sorry for wandering off topic slightly. Back on topic, it's easy for some to be convinced that adding the magic word "Bio" or "Eco" or of course "Green" makes the product less harmful to the planet, tastier, low calories thus making you slimmer, more attractive, have a better conscience and of course, the producers will look far happier in the commercials - more jolly than a Jolly Green Giant. Ho ho ho

Interesting thoughts, DB. Just a clarification, what exactly do you mean by the term "bio".

As I understand, bio means it is free from antibiotics and hormones in case of meats, and free of chemical fertilizers and pesticides in case of plants. That is all. Bio does not claim less cruelty to animals, or fair treatment of its employees, the aspects which you raise.

In general, yes, naturally grown food is healthier than the average food, isn't it?

Is there such a thing as 'naturally grown'?

I don't believe there is.

I don't think it's all about the ethics of killing animals and how dirty the ground is. Or that bio food is always better in taste or quality.

You do wonder what sort of fertilisers and pesticides are used, and what it does to the local environment. And what do they do to fruit and veg to enable it to be shipped across vast distances. Also, what does eating meat that's been given a bunch of animal hormones and anitbiotics to cope with the unsanitary conditions they live in actually does to you. Plus there's all that water they inject.

I remember watching a documentary a long time ago, on how they made bad meat look good, using an array of chemicals, and then sold on to supermarkets. Not nice, but I don't doubt that bio foods are subject to this chicannery too.

I'm no foodie, but I tend to avoid the Migros budget stuff if I can, you do know it's the worst of the worst. I still haven't figured out the difference between the 2 types of chiken Migros sell, neither of them budget, the one that's really tasty and tender, and the one that comes out all rubbery and foul. They have slightly different packets, but I can never remember which is which.

Hi, my name is Michelle and I'm a PFP! Haha!

Look, if it helps this discussion at all: I'm not interested in being right. I'm interested in learning and doing better as a person.

I was vegetarian for several years, and then vegan for a few months before discovering I was severely malnourished. I find it a challenge to reconcile my wish to do no harm to any living creature with my body's apparent need for animal nutrition. The sorrow I feel at eating meat and other animal products is in direct conflict with my own self-love. My body has gotten much stronger and healthier since I started eating meat again. So, I am at the point where I just try to do my best until I find a way to reconcile this conflict. For the moment that means buying the cleanest foods I can manage.

I'm not particularly bothered by the manure or maggots so long they can be washed off. That is nature, my dear :-). Of course, things aren't perfect even on organic farms. But they don't have to be! It isn't about condemning everything that isn't yet perfect. It is about supporting those products and people who are more in accordance with your values or who are moving in the direction you'd like to see society or the planet move as a whole. Baby steps are the way to lasting change.

But some things are less corrupted or stained by exploitation than others. I would rather choose those products. Less misery for someone is better than a lot of misery. Less misery is one step closer to no misery.

True. As I understand it some animals are less-traumatised than others. There are more humane ways to slaughter than others. Already reducing misery and pain for an animal is an improvement. Improving quality of life for animals is an improvement for them, too. Those are steps in the right direction. Again, just because a system is not yet perfect doesn't mean it isn't worthy of support. I'm all ears for other solutions concerning this.

This simply isnt true. My best friend is a Swiss farmer's son. They do all the work themselves! A lot of farms are like this. This is not the US where farming is an industry and the whole population of Mexico comes up for the summer to earn a dollar or two. Even workers who DO come to Switzerland are paid semi-humanely compared to other countries in the world. Does this make it right? No. Does it make it a bit better and is therefore a step in the right direction? Yes!

Do you really think I consider myself better than you?

I wholeheartedly agree with this. And for this reason, we all carry the same responsibility and power that goes along with being a consumer and having a few francs in our wallet.

A good question - if by natural we mean that the soil the plant is growing in is free from any impurities such as noxious chemicals or radiation, the air surrounding the plant free of toxins or pollutants, the water used by the plant free of chemical taint, toxin, pollutants etc then presumably the product from the plant would be "natural"? i.e. untainted by unwanted additives? Surely though it would be a subjective description in the same way that we describes some plants as weeds because we don't want them in amongst the roses.

But this is an important difference. At least to me.

I'm not a sod

I do try to buy seasonally and locally when possible so maybe I do qualify as a pure-food-bore.

Plus - perhaps a bit off topic, I watched "What to Eat Now" last night and had to smile at Valentine Warner and guests all tucking into some absolutely delicious looking steak which had been walking amongst the other free range cows not so long ago which were all within eyeshot and nose-shot of their gently barbequing colleague.

It is not at all about ethics, it is all about man's selfishness, to enjoy cleaner meat.

Bio food is frequently smaller in size, and poorer in quality dimensions like color, texture, and the only virtue is it is natural.

Now, I don't know how well the regulations are here, on who all can affix the bio label, but I think there will be checks and balances to prevent abuse of the name.

True. By a stretch of semantics, even mother's milk is not natural, after all most mothers eat processed food and some medicines while lactating