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View Poll Results: Do you favour the Death penalty for the crimes listed below?
Yes 49 27.37%
No 115 64.25%
Undecided 15 8.38%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:22
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Re: The death penalty?

Against it.
There have been cases were convicted people were found innocent years later... and then what? Who's fault is it if an innocent person was executed? Should his/her executer be executed as well then?

falloutchik said it beautifully simple and true in only one line: "you should not become the monster to defeat the monster". I agree to that.
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  #22  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:25
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Re: The death penalty?

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I voted undecided cause:
murder: I am all for it (capital punishment I mean)
statutory rape: against (too much a he-said she-said kind of thing. It just happens too often that it turns out the woman falsely accused the man, an irrevocable punisment is just not OK in my book)
Good point , Id say yes for murder and rape but statuatory rape leaves me wandering.
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  #23  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:42
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Re: The death penalty?

A proper caning and then absolute minimum necessities in prison would be my vote. No luxuries of any kind.

I would be for the death penalty in certain cases if there was 100% certainty of guilt, but that's not often the case. If the perpetrator requested death as a sentence I think they should be obliged.
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  #24  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:48
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Re: The death penalty?

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UM, a very interesting and valid point.

But what about those highly intelligent, cunning and beyond rehabilitation criminals who have no respect for human life either, that us tax payers have to feed whilst they are in jail, bleating about their human rights?

No, the justice system is not perfect but I would rather be safe than sorry than allowing the Ted Bundys of the world running around.I am probably standing alone on this, looking at the responses on here but putting a murderer away for life just isn't good enough. Laws change, so do parole boards, and with time, the severity of the crime dims in human memory (except maybe for the victims families). Those are things that cause life imprisonment to weather away. As long as the murderer lives, there is always a chance, no matter how small, that he will strike again - be it within the walls of prison against inmates and guards or out in society, who are naive enough to allow him out on the basis of rehabilitation / 'we are better than him'.

*awaits onslaught*
Let's base our entire justice system on extreme cases and exceptions, wheeeeee!

I'm still surprised by the amount of seemingly reasonable people who go all caveman and absolutist in relation to issues like these.
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  #25  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:52
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Re: The death penalty?

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Let's base our entire justice system on extreme cases and exceptions, wheeeeee!

I'm still surprised by the amount of seemingly reasonable people who go all caveman and absolutist in relation to issues like these.
Uh-huh, and miscarriage of justice where innocent people arent exceptions? Without serious number crunching statistics which no one has yet to come up with to shut either side up, its still out there for debate isnt it? Weeee.
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  #26  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:53
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Re: The death penalty?

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Murder (Proven) = Yes

Rape (Proven) = Yes
See Im for public upside-down flaming crucifictions for unproven cases

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A Sept 2009 Harris Poll showed that 54% of Britons would favour the return of hanging.
I interpret this poll to be a great argument against democracy.
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  #27  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:54
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Re: The death penalty?

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Murder (Proven) = Yes

Rape (Proven) = Yes
what are your thoughts on OJ Simpson?
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  #28  
Old 10.11.2009, 12:57
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Re: The death penalty?

I think if a life sentence had to be served in a jail cell like this, it would be a harsher punishment, more transparent and accountable and just more amusing.

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  #29  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:03
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Re: The death penalty?

If I am honest my knee jerk reaction to news reports about child killers & those who murder in cold blood is to hang the barstewards and do it so they suffer. When my rational brain kicks in I know that capitol punishement is wrong and to take revenge in such a way is morally unjustifiable. Prison should become a place of proper punishment & rehabilition instead. Those beyond rehabilitation should be locked up forever.
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  #30  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:07
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Re: The death penalty?

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Uh-huh, and miscarriage of justice where innocent people arent exceptions? Without serious number crunching statistics which no one has yet to come up with to shut either side up, its still out there for debate isnt it? Weeee.
I'd rather be on the side of "better safe than sorry" that doesn't potentially entail the state-sanctioned murder of an innocent person. But if you're all for a scorched earth "better safe than sorry" policy, rock on. Gladly, most civilized countries have moved past that line of thinking and believe that we as human beings can be, and can rehabilitate others to be, better than what our baser instincts make us.
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  #31  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:09
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Re: The death penalty?

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Uh-huh, and miscarriage of justice where innocent people arent exceptions? Without serious number crunching statistics which no one has yet to come up with to shut either side up, its still out there for debate isnt it? Weeee.
Well, you can look at humanity through the gauze of number crunching or you can look at what it means to be human and what it means to be humane.

Execution isn't humane. Euthanasia is. Your argument depends on your definition of justice.

I'm sad to read you're prepared to damn someone and never allow her the chance to redeem herself. Even if they're intelligent and premeditative in their actions, it's nobody's place to deny redemption. Executing brings no opportunity of hope, no opportunity for a good thing to result from a very bad thing.

Otherwise Evil wins.
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  #32  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:17
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Re: The death penalty?

Mt thoughts are that is you introduce the death penalty for cases where the victim is alive then the villain has nothing more to lose by killing them and having no witness.

caz
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  #33  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:19
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Re: The death penalty?

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The wording of your question is re. rape in general , the programme (from what you described) was rape of a minor. Which did you have in mind for the poll Castro?
The death penalty would only apply to the rape of minors, as per the programme.

In addition, in the UK there would be no long, drawn out appeals process. The idea is that it is the Jury who decide guilt, and then at a later point in time the jury also decide on whether to impose the death penalty or life in prison. The idea being that if there were any doubts in the case, the jury would be instructed to go with life in prison. In the event that the death sentence is passed, the punishment would be carried out within 30 days and only the Home Secretary would have the power to grant a stay of execution (e.g. if new evidence emerged).

In terms of potential for miscarriages of justice, not sure if the British model would be any better than a US model, but at least it would be more humane, since its the months and years of waiting on death row which I found the most barbaric aspect of the death penalty.
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  #34  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:24
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Re: The death penalty?

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what are your thoughts on OJ Simpson?
Who is OJ Simpson?

If proven on both rape and murder, he should get the capital punishment, if the law applies. What do you think?
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  #35  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:26
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Re: The death penalty?

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Who is OJ Simpson?

If proven on both rape and murder, he should get the capital punishment, if the law applies. What do you think?
I think the failure to convict OJ Simpson shows that processes and procedures can fail and we cannot base the decision to terminate any person's life on flawed processes.

And that's before we get into whether we actually have a right to make this decision and question whether we can possibly have any moral high ground if we take a life in this manner.
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  #36  
Old 10.11.2009, 13:58
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Re: The death penalty?

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Murder (Proven) = Yes

Rape (Proven) = Yes
it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
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  #37  
Old 10.11.2009, 14:32
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Re: The death penalty?

There seems to be a misunderstanding of what statutory rape actually is. It occurs when a person above the age of consent has sex with a person below the age of consent. More generally, it's when a person over the age of consent has sex with a sexually mature minor.

So, in the UK, if a boy of 16 has sex with a girl of 15, then he has committed statutory rape, even though she may have been perfectly willing. He couldn't be convicted of "rape" in any other sense. But it's highly unlikely charges would be brought. Otherwise half the under-16 population in the UK would be in jail. hmmm. Though with Castro's regime, it would reduce the number of teenage pregnancies dramatically.

But if a man of 40 has sex with a girl of 15, then he's in trouble, even if she was perfectly willing, as the law holds that she's not old enough to decide. The greater the age difference, the more serious the crime.

Now, having sex with someone who isn't past puberty is definitely more serious, and probably worthy of the death penalty.
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  #38  
Old 10.11.2009, 14:38
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Re: The death penalty?

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Last night I watched a fictional TV program call "The execution of Garry Glitter", based on an alternative Britain where Capital Punishment had been re-introduced for murder and statutory rape (minors). In the case of Gary Glitter, it was for the rape of two under 12's.

A Sept 2009 Harris Poll showed that 54% of Britons would favour the return of hanging. I'd be interested to see what that figure would be on this forum, where we all come from different parts of the globe.

So the question is, if the Swiss government called a vote on Capital Punishment for the crimes of Murder and statutory rape, would you be For or Against??

Votes are anon
I think the death penalty in my opinion is only really there for extreme crimes or situations, like:
  • Serial rapists
  • Serial murders
  • Crimes of a heinous and extreme nature

Personally I would support a death penalty in those circumstances. I don't think a multiple child rapist or murderer should have any option for redemption, I think they lose that right the moment they put a child through that level of torture... again and again. I also think we are FAR too soft on hardened criminals now as it stands. Xboxes, TV's, Christmas dinners... you can say that being locked up is punishment in itself, but they should have the most minimal of creature comforts in my opinion. Jail should be something that no-one looks forward to going back to.
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  #39  
Old 10.11.2009, 14:43
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Re: The death penalty?

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it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
and what would you say is beyond reasonable doubt ? Because at the moment for someone to be convicted the jury have to be certain beyond reasonable doubt. Which means no change then, so quite a few innocent people may get murdered by the state.

It doesnt matter how much you dress it up, the problem is with death there is no way back. So if you enable death as a punishment then everntually someone who doesn't deserve it is going to have their life ended. The possibilities are endless - how about definitely did it but has severe learning difficulties - should they still go ? Just as an example.

Of course this is already in place, in America and a number of other countries and innocent people do die. It's just whether Britain wants to adopt that approach. Of course most of the time the guilt will be 'correct' but because its the one punishment that is irreversible (all the others you can wiggle out of with compensation and the like to the victim of the miscarriage of justice) then you just shouldnt do it.

Mike
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  #40  
Old 10.11.2009, 14:44
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Re: The death penalty?

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Now, having sex with someone who isn't past puberty is definitely more serious, and probably worthy of the death penalty.
Or at least (chemical) castration.... which leaves the question of how we punish women who sexually abuse minors.
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