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View Poll Results: Do you favour the Death penalty for the crimes listed below?
Yes 49 27.37%
No 115 64.25%
Undecided 15 8.38%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 24.07.2014, 08:39
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Re: The death penalty?

Maybe Dignitas should give the US a training course.

Tom
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  #102  
Old 24.07.2014, 08:42
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Re: The death penalty?

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the death penalty is wrong in principle, and needs to be abolished worldwide
Amen.
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  #103  
Old 24.07.2014, 08:51
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Re: The death penalty?

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the death penalty is wrong in principle, and needs to be abolished worldwide


What then is the appropriate punishment for someone that murdered
two People?


Isn't murdering two People wrong in principle?
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  #104  
Old 24.07.2014, 09:16
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Re: The death penalty?

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What then is the appropriate punishment for someone that murdered
two People?


Isn't murdering two People wrong in principle?
Killing someone because he killed someone is a terrible dark irony to me.
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  #105  
Old 24.07.2014, 09:35
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Re: The death penalty?

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What then is the appropriate punishment for someone that murdered
two People?


Isn't murdering two People wrong in principle?
Obviously sticking them in jail for the rest of their lives at great expense to the poor old taxpayers.

Sorry if they've killed then they should be put down. They've knowingly killed someone, a deliberate act which should carry the ultimate penalty.
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  #106  
Old 24.07.2014, 09:43
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Re: The death penalty?

I love this post by Assassin, it sums my view perfectly and is even poetic:

"Vengeance is a poor substitute for justice.

When you pro-capital punishment voices grow up and join the human race, I'll welcome you with open arms and an open heart. Your present form of hatred is really infantile and barbaric. And when you acknowledge that we have the same ultimate dream of no major crime, we can move forwards together in trying to create a better justice system. Revenge killing is just that."

So they're going to suffer a little bit - boo hoo
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  #107  
Old 24.07.2014, 09:47
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Re: The death penalty?

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Maybe Dignitas should give the US a training course.

Tom
The reason the US are having issues with executions at the moment is the European countries are refusing to sell them the drugs anymore!
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  #108  
Old 24.07.2014, 09:58
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Re: The death penalty?

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Killing someone because he killed someone is a terrible dark irony to me.
Yes, it's called murdering a murder.
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  #109  
Old 24.07.2014, 10:04
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Re: The death penalty?

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I love this post by Assassin, it sums my view perfectly and is even poetic:

"Vengeance is a poor substitute for justice.

When you pro-capital punishment voices grow up and join the human race, I'll welcome you with open arms and an open heart. Your present form of hatred is really infantile and barbaric. And when you acknowledge that we have the same ultimate dream of no major crime, we can move forwards together in trying to create a better justice system. Revenge killing is just that."

So they're going to suffer a little bit - boo hoo
It has nothing to do with revenge, vengeance or hatred. It's making sure they suffer the punishment they deserve for killing two innocent people, period. Pure, simple and dispassionate.
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  #110  
Old 24.07.2014, 10:10
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Re: The death penalty?

This is one reason I'm against the death penalty.....

"Ford becomes the 144th death row inmate to be exonerated over the past four decades, underlining the perils of innocent people being sent to their deaths in America’s capital punishment system."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ful-conviction

.... And how many were wrong put to death?


You could say that the murderers of Lee Rigby should be put to death, they definitely did it, they showed no remorse..... But dying for their cause is what they want... They'll suffer much more in prison.
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  #111  
Old 24.07.2014, 10:31
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Re: The death penalty?

In principal I am against the death penalty, but in certain circumstances I think it would be unavoidable when you consider the threat that the individual poses to society and you wish to remove that threat.

Take two (hypothetical) examples: (1) A woman, abused by her husband for many years, finally snaps and kills the husband with a frying pan, (2) A man is convinced that God has told him to slice up children, after torturing them to death, and serve them in pies. When caught, there is evidence that the man has done this to at least three children.

Before the abolition of the death penalty in the UK, if found guilty the woman would have been executed and the man sent to a mental hospital. But who really represents a danger to society? Dispassionately and objectively it would be the man who believes that God told him to turn people into pies.

I know it is not PC to say so, but there are really some truly evil people out there who are and always will be a very great danger to society. There is an arguement that mentally ill people who commit terrible crimes should not be "punished" for the acts they do, as they are not mentally responsible - but doesn't that support the case for their humane execution? After all a rabid dog, dangerous to all because of the rabies, is not responsible for having caught rabies - yet we catch such animals and humanely euthanise them...

Regardless of the arguements for and against capital punishment, one thing is certain is that in capital cases (death penalty or not) policework, evidence, prosecution and defense should all be conducted to the highest possible standard. Objectively and dispassionately.
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  #112  
Old 24.07.2014, 10:34
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Re: The death penalty?

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What then is the appropriate punishment for someone that murdered
two People?


Isn't murdering two People wrong in principle?
Yeah but isn't speeding wrong in principle?
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  #113  
Old 24.07.2014, 10:44
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Re: The death penalty?

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<snip>

Before the abolition of the death penalty in the UK, if found guilty the woman would have been executed and the man sent to a mental hospital. But who really represents a danger to society? Dispassionately and objectively it would be the man who believes that God told him to turn people into pies.

<snip>
Yes, but he is mad. If you believe in a society that cares for its members, then you can't just cull those you think don't conform. That's about a half-step away from Eugenics, and some my say only a hair's breadth...

Then you get to who defines "mad". All well and good for the "clear-cut" cases, but what about the curable ones? What about the borderline ones?

Sorry, but your "proposal" is a pile of shlte as it is completely unenforceable, nevermind that it is simply inhumane. What about those with heart conditions or diabetes or CF - should we cull them too so that they don't weaken the genetic stock of the human race?

As for conducting everything to the "highest standard", riiiight. Humans are involved and God[/insert diety of choice] help us the day we choose to get a computer to work out the "probabilities of guilt".

There needs to be one law for all on this one, no grey, and that's precisely why the death penalty should not be used: it is fallible.
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  #114  
Old 24.07.2014, 10:48
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Re: The death penalty?

How is the death sentence a punishment? the guy is dead, he's in no pain, doesn't have to think about what he did, doesn't have the hopelessness of knowing he'll never be out of prison, he's just dead, a painless injection and he drifts off nicely, I read he was even snoring for a couple of hours.

It may bring comfort to the victims family knowing he's dead, revenge and all that

Far better 'revenge' is to just leave him in prison.

Of course neither is really a solution
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  #115  
Old 24.07.2014, 10:51
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Re: The death penalty?

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I am for the death penalty when there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that a person committed the following offences and the offender was over 20 years old at the time of offence

1)Planned murder of more than one person,

2)Murder with aggravating circumstances such as rape or molestation of a child

3)Negligence causing death where the motive of the negligence is greed.
Say what?

1 = no murder has taken place based on your definition
3 = you serious about that? The whole capitalist system is based on greed. When you combine that with the difficulty of proving actual negligence really, I don't know where to start...

grade of post: E - must try harder
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  #116  
Old 24.07.2014, 11:21
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Re: The death penalty?

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Yes, but he is mad. If you believe in a society that cares for its members, then you can't just cull those you think don't conform. That's about a half-step away from Eugenics, and some my say only a hair's breadth...
But you could argue that removing an individual from society who is a very great danger to society as a whole is caring for the majority of the members of society. Furthermore, serial murder and torture is something very different than "not conforming" to society.
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  #117  
Old 24.07.2014, 11:21
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Re: The death penalty?

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Yeah but isn't speeding wrong in principle?
Speeding could kill a person. This is true, but a speeder does not have the intent of killing a person(s). They just want to arrive somewhere quicker.
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  #118  
Old 24.07.2014, 11:29
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Re: The death penalty?

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But you could argue that removing an individual from society who is a very great danger to society as a whole is caring for the majority of the members of society.
And who defines that "great danger"? Shall we put it to the vote - hooray for the will of the mob...

Your line of reason is called utilitarianism - whereby the "greater good of society" is always selected. The problem is that this approach steamrollers everyone and assumes that the greater good is the right choice. Which is not always the case. Not a happy society to be in and ironically one of the criticisms (of many) is that it can ignores justice when that justice does not serve the greater good. Ah, don't you love the irony?

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Furthermore, serial murder and torture is something very different than "not conforming" to society.
Not really. The former is an example of the latter.
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  #119  
Old 24.07.2014, 11:47
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Re: The death penalty?

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And who defines that "great danger"? Shall we put it to the vote - hooray for the will of the mob...

Your line of reason is called utilitarianism - whereby the "greater good of society" is always selected. The problem is that this approach steamrollers everyone and assumes that the greater good is the right choice. Which is not always the case. Not a happy society to be in and ironically one of the criticisms (of many) is that it can ignores justice when that justice does not serve the greater good. Ah, don't you love the irony?



Not really. The former is an example of the latter.
But you're doing that anyway by throwing them in jail. You do it for the greater good of society, not for any other reason. If you didn't you'd just leave them to get on with killing more people.
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  #120  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:00
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Re: The death penalty?

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isn't speeding wrong in principle?
No.

Tom
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