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View Poll Results: Do you favour the Death penalty for the crimes listed below?
Yes 49 27.37%
No 115 64.25%
Undecided 15 8.38%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:09
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Re: The death penalty?

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Speeding could kill a person. This is true, but a speeder does not have the intent of killing a person(s). They just want to arrive somewhere quicker.
so negligence by way of greed? DEATH TO THEM!
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  #122  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:35
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Re: The death penalty?

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It has nothing to do with revenge, vengeance or hatred. It's making sure they suffer the punishment they deserve for killing two innocent people, period. Pure, simple and dispassionate.
Sorry, that is revenge.

Capital punishment is not justice and it is not a deterrent, it is simply state murder and barbaric revenge and cheapens the value of life.
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  #123  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:37
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Re: The death penalty?

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Sorry, that is revenge.

Capital punishment is not justice and it is not a deterrent, it is simply state murder and barbaric revenge and cheapens the value of life.

good for votes though
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  #124  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:53
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Re: The death penalty?

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good for votes though
In previous news stories I've read things like 'He's not going to be granted a stay [of execution] because the Governor is up for re-election'.
That to me is shocking, how one person's career can influence whether another human being lives or dies.
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  #125  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:54
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Re: The death penalty?

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In previous news stories I've read things like 'He's not going to be granted a stay [of execution] because the Governor is up for re-election'.
That to me is shocking, how one person's career can influence whether another human being lives or dies.
How can one person be allowed to kill another when they're no threat? You've caught them, put them in a cage and now you want to run a sword through the bars? You've got to be kidding.
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  #126  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:55
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Re: The death penalty?

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In previous news stories I've read things like 'He's not going to be granted a stay [of execution] because the Governor is up for re-election'.
That to me is shocking, how one person's career can influence whether another human being lives or dies.
much like isreal and hamas at the moment most conflicts are because of money and power, this is no different
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  #127  
Old 24.07.2014, 12:59
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Re: The death penalty?

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How can one person be allowed to kill another when they're no threat? You've caught them, put them in a cage and now you want to run a sword through the bars? You've got to be kidding.
What is even more baffling is how you can kill an old man for a crime he committed when he was an angry young man?
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  #128  
Old 24.07.2014, 13:06
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Re: The death penalty?

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What is even more baffling is how you can kill an old man for a crime he committed when he was an angry young man?
But I guess it's OK if it is an angry old man a la Alf Garnett...



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  #129  
Old 24.07.2014, 13:07
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Re: The death penalty?

I still believe in capital punishment but only for specific cases: serial/mass murderers, serial brutal rapists, people who as soon as the were let out would go and do the same thing again. Basically people beyond rehabilitation, the worst of the worst.
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  #130  
Old 24.07.2014, 13:15
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Re: The death penalty?

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I still believe in capital punishment but only for specific cases: serial/mass murderers, serial brutal rapists, people who as soon as the were let out would go and do the same thing again. Basically people beyond rehabilitation, the worst of the worst.
What's rehabilitation got to do with it? You want to kill people you can't fix? Why can't they be kept in jail?
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  #131  
Old 24.07.2014, 13:51
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Re: The death penalty?

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This is one reason I'm against the death penalty.....

"Ford becomes the 144th death row inmate to be exonerated over the past four decades, underlining the perils of innocent people being sent to their deaths in America’s capital punishment system."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ful-conviction

.... And how many were wrong put to death?


You could say that the murderers of Lee Rigby should be put to death, they definitely did it, they showed no remorse..... But dying for their cause is what they want... They'll suffer much more in prison.
and this is it. because the death penalty is currently a bit of a one way street, if you get it wrong you've rather messed things up for the person in question.

"Beyond reasonable doubt" sounds very simple but is in fact fiendeshly complex to define. CCTV ? lots of witnesses say the same thing ? found a letter saying "im glad a killed the bastard" ? can be quite subjective.
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  #132  
Old 24.07.2014, 13:56
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Re: The death penalty?

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In principal I am against the death penalty, but in certain circumstances I think it would be unavoidable when you consider the threat that the individual poses to society and you wish to remove that threat.

Take two (hypothetical) examples: (1) A woman, abused by her husband for many years, finally snaps and kills the husband with a frying pan, (2) A man is convinced that God has told him to slice up children, after torturing them to death, and serve them in pies. When caught, there is evidence that the man has done this to at least three children.

Before the abolition of the death penalty in the UK, if found guilty the woman would have been executed and the man sent to a mental hospital. But who really represents a danger to society? Dispassionately and objectively it would be the man who believes that God told him to turn people into pies.

I know it is not PC to say so, but there are really some truly evil people out there who are and always will be a very great danger to society. There is an arguement that mentally ill people who commit terrible crimes should not be "punished" for the acts they do, as they are not mentally responsible - but doesn't that support the case for their humane execution? After all a rabid dog, dangerous to all because of the rabies, is not responsible for having caught rabies - yet we catch such animals and humanely euthanise them...

Regardless of the arguements for and against capital punishment, one thing is certain is that in capital cases (death penalty or not) policework, evidence, prosecution and defense should all be conducted to the highest possible standard. Objectively and dispassionately.
A woman has three children, whom she loves and a husband, but the husband beats her mercilessly and has done for 20 years.

One day the woman hears a message from god, she says, and kills her children. her husband goes to beat her for it, but she kills him with a frying pan.

Does the woman deserve to be sentenced to death here ?
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  #133  
Old 24.07.2014, 13:59
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Re: The death penalty?

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Does the woman deserve to be sentenced to death here ?
No one deserves anything. "Deserve" is vengeance and that helps no one. What course of action will best help the woman and society in this case?
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  #134  
Old 24.07.2014, 14:12
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Re: The death penalty?

my personal belief is that there are some transgressions against your fellow man from which a return to "normal" participation in society is no longer possible. I also believe that a person who commits such a transgression forfeits into perpetuity their right to have a voice in how society treats them, just the same as they have forcibly caused another innocent person to forfeit into perpetuity their right to have such a voice.

whether a society locks such a person up so that they die in prison or executes them is up to each society, I honestly don't care one way or the other since one is effectively nothing more than a deferral of the inevitability of the other. I have to admit, however, that it baffles me that anyone would think that locking an innocent person up for 60 years is somehow less abhorrent than executing such an innocent person. - both are emblematic of a broken and/or corrupt society.
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  #135  
Old 24.07.2014, 14:32
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Re: The death penalty?

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Say what?

1 = no murder has taken place based on your definition
3 = you serious about that? The whole capitalist system is based on greed. When you combine that with the difficulty of proving actual negligence really, I don't know where to start...

grade of post: E - must try harder
3 would for very special cases, such as 2007 fire in Turin killing 7 persons; the person responsible (Esperhahn) should have been executed, not spend a couple years in fairly comfortable prisons.
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  #136  
Old 24.07.2014, 14:51
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Re: The death penalty?

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It has nothing to do with revenge, vengeance or hatred. It's making sure they suffer the punishment they deserve for killing two innocent people, period. Pure, simple and dispassionate.
Here's a few random definitions of revenge and vengeance culled from a quick google search. Perhaps you'd care to compare them with your words highlighted above.

vengeance
ˈvɛn(d)ʒ(ə)ns/
noun
noun: vengeance
punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong.


noun: revenge
1.
the action of hurting or harming someone in return for an injury or wrong suffered at their hands.

revenge
verb (used with object), re·venged, re·veng·ing. 1. to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit

revenge: noun

[mass noun] 1The action of hurting or harming someone in return for an injury or wrong suffered at their hands

re·venge (r-vnj)tr.v. re·venged, re·veng·ing, re·veng·es 1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.


ven·geance (vnjns)n. Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
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  #137  
Old 24.07.2014, 14:53
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Re: The death penalty?

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3 would for very special cases, such as 2007 fire in Turin killing 7 persons; the person responsible (Esperhahn) should have been executed, not spend a couple years in fairly comfortable prisons.
Great - more random "yes" for this but "no" for that.

I am glad that you are not in any position of responsibility on this one...
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  #138  
Old 24.07.2014, 15:21
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Re: The death penalty?

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Great - more random "yes" for this but "no" for that.

I am glad that you are not in any position of responsibility on this one...
I'm glad none of the electorate is...in most sensible countries that opt for a representative democracy for exactly these reasons.
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  #139  
Old 24.07.2014, 15:50
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Re: The death penalty?

I'm mostly against, but every now and then I get a twinge of "they don't deserve to be alive". I guess that makes me pretty human.
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  #140  
Old 24.07.2014, 20:23
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Re: The death penalty?

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This is one reason I'm against the death penalty.....

"Ford becomes the 144th death row inmate to be exonerated over the past four decades, underlining the perils of innocent people being sent to their deaths in America’s capital punishment system."
that does weigh on me, that is why I prefer US States which select very carefully which cases to sentence to death; the chance a person would be wrongly executed is high in states like Florida, Missouri, Ohio and Texas.
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