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View Poll Results: Do you favour the Death penalty for the crimes listed below?
Yes 49 27.37%
No 115 64.25%
Undecided 15 8.38%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 24.07.2014, 21:01
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Re: The death penalty?

All for it in certain cases.

And in certain cases I'd like to see the criminal tied to a post and the victim/victims family allowed to beat the shit out them everyday till they get bored of it.
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  #142  
Old 24.07.2014, 21:13
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Re: The death penalty?

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All for it in certain cases.

And in certain cases I'd like to see the criminal tied to a post and the victim/victims family allowed to beat the shit out them everyday till they get bored of it.
how far have you come since you were a toddler? Not much it seems .
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  #143  
Old 24.07.2014, 21:49
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Re: The death penalty?

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how far have you come since you were a toddler? Not much it seems .
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  #144  
Old 24.07.2014, 22:22
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Re: The death penalty?

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Sorry, that is revenge.

Capital punishment is not justice and it is not a deterrent, it is simply state murder and barbaric revenge and cheapens the value of life.
What value of life? We kill thousands every day of the year? Murders, wars, accidents, man made disasters. If you think there is, you're sorely mistaken. We may prattle on about it, but the truth is we'll happily pick a fight at the slightest excuse.

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Here's a few random definitions of revenge and vengeance culled from a quick google search. Perhaps you'd care to compare them with your words highlighted above.

vengeance
ˈvɛn(d)ʒ(ə)ns/
noun
noun: vengeance
punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong.


noun: revenge
1.
the action of hurting or harming someone in return for an injury or wrong suffered at their hands.

revenge
verb (used with object), re·venged, re·veng·ing. 1. to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit

revenge: noun

[mass noun] 1The action of hurting or harming someone in return for an injury or wrong suffered at their hands

re·venge (r-vnj)tr.v. re·venged, re·veng·ing, re·veng·es 1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.


ven·geance (vnjns)n. Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
What you seem to have forgotten is that those are emotions. I don't feel any of those. I simply want them done away with in the same way that I'd want a dangerous dog done away with. Perhaps, instead of putting dangerous dogs down we should also send them off to prisons for the rest of their lives. After all, it's more often than not the fault of humans that they've become dangerous in the first place.

You missed punish out btw.

1. to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault: to punish a criminal.

2. to inflict a penalty for (an offense, fault, etc.): to punish theft.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/punish?s=t

They committed the offense so should pay the appropriate penalty.
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  #145  
Old 24.07.2014, 22:33
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Re: The death penalty?

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Here's a few random definitions of revenge and vengeance culled from a quick google search. Perhaps you'd care to compare them with your words highlighted above.

vengeance
ˈvɛn(d)ʒ(ə)ns/
noun
noun: vengeance
punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong.
What you seem to have forgotten is that those are emotions.
No, I didn't forget anything. Your claim that the capital punishment is not revenge or vengeance is all I'm taking issue with. It is, by definition.
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  #146  
Old 24.07.2014, 22:34
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Re: The death penalty?

Well, I'm one of the few who has mixed emotions about capital punishment. But who knows how I'd feel if someone I loved was murdered, etc.

I guess I'm not sure anymore if its real purpose is to try to prevent crime or if the purpose is mainly just to punish for it. Perhaps both. But I doubt it really prevents crime. And as for the punishment, I've heard of too many cases where someone on death row was later found innocent (especially now that DNA evidence can be made available, etc.).

What I would like to see (in the US) are less "comfortable" prisons. It just doesn't settle well with me... the thought of so many tax dollars paying for someone to sit around, play cards and watch TV all day.
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  #147  
Old 24.07.2014, 22:59
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Re: The death penalty?

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No, I didn't forget anything. Your claim that the capital punishment is not revenge or vengeance is all I'm taking issue with. It is, by definition.
No, it's just the law. If we have no laws, then we have no civilisation. If this law is vengeful, then so must all laws be because they exact a penalty for transgressing that law. Is it revenge or vengeance to be fined CHF300 for speeding excessively? No. It's the due punishment as laid down by the laws of the land.
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  #148  
Old 26.07.2014, 23:29
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Re: The death penalty?

How about a referendum on it, but everyone that votes 'yes' has their name recorded, then whenever we find an innocent has been executed a name is drawn at random from the 'yes' voters and they get executed.
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  #149  
Old 27.07.2014, 00:55
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Re: The death penalty?

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What value of life? We kill thousands every day of the year? Murders, wars, accidents, man made disasters. If you think there is, you're sorely mistaken. We may prattle on about it, but the truth is we'll happily pick a fight at the slightest excuse.



What you seem to have forgotten is that those are emotions. I don't feel any of those. I simply want them done away with in the same way that I'd want a dangerous dog done away with. Perhaps, instead of putting dangerous dogs down we should also send them off to prisons for the rest of their lives. After all, it's more often than not the fault of humans that they've become dangerous in the first place.

You missed punish out btw.

1. to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault: to punish a criminal.

2. to inflict a penalty for (an offense, fault, etc.): to punish theft.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/punish?s=t

They committed the offense so should pay the appropriate penalty.
You feel a lot. The word "should" is emotive and the word "appropriate" signifies a value judgement. Now, why do you prefer execution to jail?
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  #150  
Old 27.07.2014, 00:57
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Re: The death penalty?

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No, it's just the law. If we have no laws, then we have no civilisation. If this law is vengeful, then so must all laws be because they exact a penalty for transgressing that law. Is it revenge or vengeance to be fined CHF300 for speeding excessively? No. It's the due punishment as laid down by the laws of the land.
This is both laughable and scarily naive. You really believe a law is right because it exists and that questioning laws means questioning the legal system itself?

The fine acts as a deterrent. The death penalty does not.
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  #151  
Old 05.02.2015, 20:09
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Re: The death penalty?

Old rock singer Gary Glitter (Paul Gladd) has just been convicted for the 3rd time for sexual offenses against young girls, one was under 10 years old. He was deported from Cambodia and later from Vietnam. You might not see him again after he is sentenced later this month, he was born 8.5.1944 and is now 70 years old, and he will probably die in prison.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter
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  #152  
Old 06.02.2015, 10:42
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Re: The death penalty?

The questions one should ask him/herself are:
- is death a punishment? Or better, for whom is it a punishment? AFAIK there is no life after death so I mean, once the person is dead, he/she is dead, end of story, nothing he/she can regret. The punishment would therefore be for the family/friends of the convict. But then it is a revenge action taken by the society against other innocent people (if tomorrow i kill a little kid, I don't think my daughter should feel responsible for it, so why should she be punished because of it?)
- is death penalty effectively preventing crime to be perpetrated? In almost all countries that apply death penalty, the answer is NO. USA are not famous for a low crime rate. In France, before they stopped the death penalty, there were still horrible children murders and stuff like this. From the countries I really know about, I would say that the only one where death penalty has a clear prevention effect is Singapore. But then again, one can wonder about the human rights in SG as you can get hung for possessing or selling drugs.

So I think that death penalty only acts as a pressure relief valve for the community, by satisfying a basic need of revenge.
Therefore, my personal opinion about death penalty is 100% against.

However, 100% supportive of the fact that prison should not be just a place where you put people who are dangerous for the society away. It should be a tough punishment (for crime I mean). It should make people fear it.
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  #153  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:19
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Re: The death penalty?

Looking on the bright side, if Garry Glitter had been executed the first time, many, many children in Britain, Cambodia and Vietnam would not have been raped by him. The youngest was under 10 years old!
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  #154  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:41
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Re: The death penalty?

It`s Friday night, O/H is away on a business trip, and I`m bored and looking for amusement and found this thread re-gurgited so will add my opinion.

I think the death penalty should be for those who are a danger to society, who have been proven to be a danger, who are unable to function in society, who cannot be relied upon to act humanely, who have removed themselves from the normal strata of society.

For such acts as random murder, preying upon defenceless persons, indiscriminate violence against strangers, premeditated murder, brutality to defenceless persons (aged/children), rape of children (not provocotive 15yr olds, but infants/babies and other "real innocents".
Armed robbery. Actually in armed robbery - even if it is with a "toy" weapon - the intent is the same - to intimidate with the threat of death.

Of course, 100% proof is required. Eye-witnesses, proof of crime 100%. No botched police reports and other technicalities nullifying the "process of law". Manufacture of technical faults/fabrications of lawyers ditto .
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  #155  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:45
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Re: The death penalty?

Nope!!!
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  #156  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:55
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Re: The death penalty?

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Of course, 100% proof is required. Eye-witnesses, proof of crime 100%. No botched police reports and other technicalities nullifying the "process of law". Manufacture of technical faults/fabrications of lawyers ditto .
And how exactly do you determine this as they usualy do not get discovered until long after the punishment has been carried out and the corpse is well and truly cold
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  #157  
Old 06.02.2015, 23:34
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Re: The death penalty?

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And how exactly do you determine this as they usualy do not get discovered until long after the punishment has been carried out and the corpse is well and truly cold
Well, I remember a case in South Africa. Five young men broke into a house, beat the men with lead pipes, tied them up, raped the elderly mother and her daughters. One daughter 7 months pregnant lost her baby. One (or more, I forget the exact details now) of the men died, one was permanently crippled.

In court the five young attackers got off because of a technicality in the police procedure of arresting them.

They were all definitely identified, fingerprints, etc.

They committed the crime. They should have had their lives terminated. Not fit to live in society.

Those are the type of cases I am meaning.
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  #158  
Old 07.02.2015, 09:05
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Re: The death penalty?

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...In court the five young attackers got off because of a technicality in the police procedure of arresting them.

They were all definitely identified, fingerprints, etc.

They committed the crime. They should have had their lives terminated. Not fit to live in society.

Those are the type of cases I am meaning.
I'm not convinced. The reason why we have a system of laws is to protect the innocent. If those laws can be modified so that the guilty beyond reasonable doubt don't get off on technicality, without significantly increasing the chance of a miscarriage of justice, then fine.

Your argument has nothing, I think, to do with the desirability or otherwise of the death penalty.
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  #159  
Old 12.03.2015, 14:24
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Re: The death penalty?

No is in my view a no brainer.

I think it is fair to say not many of us (have to be diplomatic here for the religious audience) actualy know what happens after death. Would you send someone to the gallows and a possible end to their existance forever or infinity in the pits of hell? Personaly I dont see a balance of consequences to crime here. Furthermore in the future cures may be found to eradicate such mental dissorders/illnesses. If the end justifies the means then death is not in my view the logical option.

Very subjective argument though and thought provoking too.
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  #160  
Old 12.03.2015, 14:33
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Re: The death penalty?

Utah to go back to firing squads, and other US states are running out of lethal injection drugs.

You'd think that since America is all about free markets and their suppliers won't sell them the drugs they need anymore, how about admitting that the market has spoken and giving a second thought to the content of your laws.
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